USLC motor shop and my story.

[IraceLegends77]

So let me tell you a little story about what happened to me and the engine shop.

First a little about me . I have been racing legends for about 10 years maybe more. I have been to 4 dirt nationals and 2 winter nationals. I race on a very modest budget (mostly used stuff) but love this sport and  love this series.

A friend and I decided to take a trip down to Concord NC to get are motors resealed and doing so we took a couple other guys from our area motors also. In all we had 6 motors. We made an appointment and showed up that morning. After we unloaded all the motors they took one that had a head bolt striped and one of the other guys that we had brought down and put them on the table. They started tearing the heads off both motors and inspecting. We knew they would pull the one motor apart but was surprised to see them do it to the other one. After we left we ran around the area for a couple of days we went back late on Friday to pick up the motors. Once we got there we were told by Brian that there was a problem with a couple of the motors. One was mine and the other was the guy that came down with me. Mine was about 30 old race motor that I had bought from a USLC dealer USED. It had served me well but was not a power house by any means. Brian told me and showed me that it had slotted cam gears in it....ILLEGAL. They also told me that the head had been decked to much and the head was also ILLEGAL. They also told me that the motor had been bored .009 over but it had stock pistons. They showed me this by using a feeler gauge and sticking down the piston hole and beside the piston. Now I'm not a engine guy but I'm not stupid either.

The results.

Slotted gear cams: They were replaced with non slotted gears. Easy fix.

Head decked to much: extra base gasket installed (Supposedly).

Jug bored over .009: ? somehow it is OK now.

The good news is they did all this for free. Now you have to be asking yourself  why would they do this for free? Is it because they are good guys or is it because I called BS on there findings and the fact that I bought this from a USLC dealer?  What I do know is that I was looked right in the eye and lied to by several of the management personnel of the engine shop.  They want people to come to them but if this is the way they do business then it is now wounder people are going to outside sources and paying more.


I will say that if I knew that anything was illegal on my motor I probably wouldn't have taken it down there or at least would have told them about the slotted cam gears. They were not going to miss that one and I just didn't know any better. As far as the head goes. If it was decked as much as they told me it would have been cut all the way down to the valve guides (impossible). Now for the BIG one . Having a .009 over bore with stock pistons. (again IMPOSSIBLE) it would not have enough compression to even start if that were true. They even told me that it had been a big motor at one time but someone put the stock pistons back in it.

There is way more to this story but I'm tired of beating my head against the wall. I do not cheat nor do I want to cheat. As I stated before, I love Legends cars and plan on staying here for a long time but if we (the members) don't do something about this motor program then it is going die a slow death. That is my opinion.

PS. I will be running a 1200 this year.

[Legends57x]

Scott,

Thank you for sharing your story and sorry to hear how it all turned out.  I am with you all the way in regards to the sealed engine program as it now stands.  I have gotten rid of my sealed 1250 engine and moved on to an open 1200 also.  If for some reason I had to purchase a new sealed 1250 to continue racing, my Legends days would be over.  Simply can't afford $5500 for a new engine as I also raced on a limited budget. 

Good luck! 

[knoxracing]

Scott, YOU BOUGHT A MOTOR FROM A DEALER AS A USED MOTOR- SUPOSEDLY. IT WAS ILLEGAL AND IT WAS REPAIRRED FOR FREE. What more could you ask for? I spoke with you AND USLC about this engine, come on what do you expect them to do. It had slotted gears and it was over bored, hello its illegal as hell and you were pissed at them!!!!! This is the whole purpose of having seals installed, I GUESS THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!!

SINCE YOU GOT ME INVOLVED WITH THIS LETS HAVE A CONFERENCE CALL WITH YOU, MYSELF AND G.E TOMORROW, WHAT TIME IS GOOD WITH YOU?

[VMS Motorsports]

[knoxracing]

SORRY JIMM, I AM JUST REALLY IRRITATED WITH THIS BECAUSE I WAS INVOLVED AND I KNOW HOW ILLEGAL THIS MOTOR WAS.


USLC SPENT HOURS AND HOURS ON THIS MOTOR, repaired multiple issues and DELIVERED IT TO CENTRAL P.A. AND NEVER CHARGED A DIME. HOW CAN ANYONE BAD MOUTH THIS? 

People keep saying oh my seals may be illegal but my motor is legal, well this is EXACTLY what USLC is seeing over and over. The seals are illegal and the motor is illegal and gee, I had no idea. Everyone wants a fair playing field and that's exactly what is trying to be achieved and now that's unfair and not good enough.

Guys wait until people start claiming and protesting seals, it will get real interesting then, because let me explain this to all you.

Racers an BUILDERS think they are going to outsmart USLC, they are having motors checked and resealed. THEN taking them to there little builders and having the unsealed and tampered with. Oh boy that was really smart, you got one over on USLC---- UNTIL you now find out those seals can be claimed. PLUS it will be mandated that seals be removed at events all over the country and sent to USLC on a random basis.

[VMS Motorsports]

No apology necessary. I was just waiting to see what happened next.
I have no experience with the 1250's or USLC's engine shop, so I have nothing to say (I hate when that happens!)
I'll just kick back and eat some popcorn while it plays out 

[knoxracing]

When I am ASKED to get involved in a situation and I know all the facts and this stuff gets posted in this manor, I get testy. Again, the hours and parts to repair an ILLEGAL engine had a zero charge. SLOTTED CAM GEARS< THE DECK HEIGHT WAS WRONG, etc etc. No penalty and NO COST for repair and reseal. I am just aggravated to hell.

[IraceLegends77]

First off I'm traveling so I'm on a phone. I never asked you to get involved Dennis. I ask your opinion and since you are a company man I ask for your input. The only thing that was illegal was the slotted gear cam and that used to be legal from what I wAs told a while back. This is a old motor really old. I will post more tomorrow and a welcome a conference call from GE and god for that matter. Any time I'm on leave. 443-520-2758. By the way the same dealer was selling TC a week ago. 

[VMS Motorsports]

Y'all can put me on that conference call if you want.
(262)352-1234
GE and Chad wanted to talk to me at Dirt Nationals, but I never had the time...

[legends13]

This shows some people are never happy. They fixed your illegal engine for no cost. What more do you want? Gimme a break...

[Legends57x]

For the sake of discussion and from what I've read,  I believe Scott is not unhappy about his illegal engine being repaired for free.  He's not happy that he received an illegal used engine when he bought it.  He assumed like many do that since it was a sealed engine it was perfectly legal as received.  Maybe it was Scott's fault for not removing the valve cover prior to purchase to check for the slotted cam gears. But he probably was under the assumption since he was buying from a USLC dealer that the engine was 100% legal.  And the dealer may have thought he was selling a 100% legal used engine also, but did not really check either.  So if Scott would have been teched during the season(as many of us on this website are asking for better tech in the future), he may have been put on probation or thrown out of legends racing altogether without any real fault of his own. 
In a related deal at our track this year, our dealer sold a dad an old two bar sedan legend car for $9000 so his son could start his Legends career.  That night the dad wrote a check to the dealer, dealer encouraged dad  to have his son to take some hot laps and before you know it the kid was starting in back of the feature that same night.  Kid took approx. 3/4 of a lap before loosing control sending car into turns 3 &4 wall and rolling over.  Pretty much destroyed entire car.  Before they knew it, they had $12-13,000 in this used car after purchasing new frame and numerous other parts.  Prior to purchasing new frame, they took the old chassis to a well known chassis repair person who drilled a few holes in roll cage and found it to be old thin wall material that he would not put his name on to repair.  So here again, a dealer sold a product to a customer that should have never seen the track and he was lucky he didn't get hurt.  On top of this, the car had outdated seat belts and for $9000 should have come with new belts.  So here again we have another customer who assumed incorrectly that they were getting a quality legal product.   So pretty soon  customers loose faith in the product, sales fall off, and the series dies out.  Just my two cents...

[IraceLegends77]

You have to ask yourself why did they do this all for free? Was out of the goodness of there heart or were they trying right a wrong? I don't have those answers but what I do know is that I was lied to on multiple occasions. So the next question is why was I lied to? I don't have that answer either. As a dad a husband and a US soldier I don't have much but one thing I do have have is integrity. This motor program is a soup sandwich and we all know it. YES Dennis even you know it. $6300 bucks for a out dated motor cycle engine is absurd. I welcome a call from GE and hell let's get Mr. Smith on phone and I will break it down for him as well. I know I don't see all the business side of this but I do see the customer side of it and if you don't take care of us there is no business side. So as I stated in my last post my number is 443-520-2758 you can call anytime as I'm on leave for the next week and welcome the chance to talk.
As a parting word I love this series and these cars. I have made many friends doing this for the last 10+ years. But with anything there are ways to improve it. I would love your input.

Here are some questions to ponder.

Why would someone go to Hank Scott, Curt Andrews, Larry Mc Bride or Ken Joyce when they charge more than USLC?
Why would someone go to them and have them build a 100% legal motor and spend more money? (Other than the seals)
Why is the motor programs reputation suck?

I have no affiliation with any of the guys fore mentioned and barley know any of them but  so ask yourself this. If USLC is doing such a good job why do any of these guys still have a business in Legends.

[knoxracing]

USLC has NO responsibility to make an engine correct that is illegal. If you buy  a used car from a Ford Dealer, Ford is not responsible for that car. That is between you and the dealer. I know exactly what was up with your motor and when you called ma and told me what was going on you were mainly concerned with being labeled a cheater and I can understand that. I said to you "let me check into and get back to you" and I did. You also stated that another builder told you that what you were telling him couldn't be correct or the motor would not run. The motor had slotted gears, the deck height was illegal, etc etc., Why would USLC lie? Well today we will have a conference call and find out. End result is you have a rebuilt 1250 with current seals at NO cost. By the way how much did you pay for that motor? Scott, do I think you are lying? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I feel there is misinformation between yourself USLC and others. I know about enough about motors to get myself in trouble especially when it comes to deck height, piston clearance etc. I am sure this will all be worked out.

[riptide60]

Feel you on your post. And have had some of same experiences.  I will never take a motor back to them they have no clue there rude and ignorant. G.E needs to go away aswell as hawk n Hagen they've destroyed the series. You work with the customer and make things better not worse. Some ppl will defend them till the end but they obviously have no clue aswell. Long live the 1200 throw the seals away lets go racing. -rip to race

[stroutmail]

Although my experience is admittedly limited (only my second year in Legends) I must say that without exception, every person I have had contact with so far at USLC has been courteous, helpful and very professional.  Like USLC, NASCAR, SCCA and other sanctioning bodies have all made efforts to control costs and maintain competiveness. It is a very challenging task and almost always generates controversy.   Disagreements are inevitable, but name calling is unnecessary.  

USLC is a for profit operation. They have everything to gain by having Legends Car racing be  successful in the long run. Like all businesses, they constantly balance the need to cover rising costs and make a profit in the short term with the need to sustain the business in a competitive environment for the long term. Other than go-karts, I have not found a more cost effective series for the  serious racer--especially when running on dirt with very low tire costs.   (A first rate SCCA Formula Vee 1200 cc air cooled racing engine with 50 year old technology now costs $7500 to $10,000 and does not last as long as a Yamaha 1250.)  Legends is one of few racing programs where talent is just as important as the size of your bank account or sponsorship package. Focusing on having competition limited to car prep and driving as opposed to engine building tweaking is a very good way to keep costs low.