what's the deal? sealed 1200's

[phylzub02]

I was just informed that before the start of the season all engines 1200 and 1250's will be sealed..cost to have them checked and sealed will be 100.00-150.00.they will be coming around to do this. but if not,  they will need to be sent to go to LasVegas .. we are in boise Idaho.. this was supposibly from john hagen at the world finals in Vegas.. Frank
Any news on this is appreciated, thanks

[justfreaky]

Frank,

Read the posts on getting current engine seals. This only applies to the sealed engines (far as I am aware).
If you run an open engine, you should be ok. The rulebook posts a little info about the seals.

Steve

[phylzub02]

no...this is a new deal!!!!!All motors whether they are 1200 or 1250 will be checked and sealed.. if you have the older 1250's they will need to be resealed and checked too..
the 1200  will be checked for legality and sealed..Costing 100.00 or 150.00..
thanks frank
I do not know if this is here or there also..like I said I am in Boise Idaho..This Came down just this last weekend at the road coarse nationals from john Hagen...

[IraceLegends77]

You might have the the 1219 motor confused with the 1200. The 1219 does have a seal. They will lose some people if they want to seal 1200.

[phylzub02]

I am not confusing the 1200 with a 1219!!!!!
this is a real deal..it will flat out ruin the whole class of cars..i want some replies from the people who know about it , and how this is going to work..Maybe Dennis can enlighten us more on this new ruling,or someone from USLegends please.
thank you Frank

[knoxracing]

There is NO truth to the 1200 being sealed. The only way your 1200 would be sealed is if it were sent to US Legends and converted to a 1219. This is per USLC this morning. I will say, you never know what could be in the works. At this time there is NO plan to seal these motors. As for the 1200 conversion to 1219, its a great engine that will out run the 1200 and it is not subject to the 165 pumping compression rule.

[IraceLegends77]

If USLC were to do something that foolish, I do believe that it would be the final straw that would set off some series to cut away. These motors are junk and we all know it. We need a water cooled engine but USLC has so much money invested in the FJ program that they will never change and it might be the one thing that will cause a bunch of series to just use there rule book and come up with a different motor program. SCCA is already looking at giving the legends class a different motor. They need to just open up the seals and let tech do there job. I know that some will disagree but USLC motor shop has a reputation for producing junk. So they have kind of done some of this to themselves. The other BIG factor to this is the cost of these motors. They need to get the cost down on these relics. Sorry for the rant but something needs to be done. I love Legends and want to see it grow and succeed.

[83racedad]

There's a engine platform already running in a series called Mod-Lites I know a lot of you know about it or Dwarf cars. Its a great engine platform we ran them for years Suzuki GSXR 1000 water cooled will fit in a Legends car very easily done without frame mods just motor mounts. Engine to drive shaft couplers already exist along with headers. Stock radiator will fit were your oil cooler fits. These engines can be purchased off the internet from $1200.00 -$2200.00 depends on year & mileage. We ran one for 2 years every Friday night 20+ races a year never had a minutes problem. Wiring harness & ECU converted for about $300.00. I know if we had an engine platform like this it would drive down our annual racing costs & frustrations with our current program. Just putting this out there I am just annoyed as a lot of you are. We blew 2 engines 2 weeks ago running a road course at Summit Point. These  engines are not designed to do what we do with them being air cooled. We have been running them since the 1980's lets move on!!!!!

[VMS Motorsports]

I don't think that they will make the switch to liquid cooled engines.
The reason?
Money.
Liquid cooled engines last longer, that's just a fact.
People wouldn't be sending their motors in every year to be freshened "just because" anymore, because it wouldn't be necessary.
USLC would lose a ton of money after the initial engine sales

[knoxracing]

USLC has an ongoing contract with Yamaha. They have greatly toyed with cooling the FJ with water as it is in the Roadster and dirt car. It in my opinion is not a good fit in the Legend car. If and when the FJ1250 becomes obsolete there could be a change, until then its not going to happen. Its not because they want your motor to blow or be rebuilt more often. it is because this is what they started with and the motor and its parts as a 1250 are  available to USLC, there techs, tooling and knowledge is invested toward the 1250. It would be huge undertaking to change motors, until it is a must it will not happen.

[IraceLegends77]

I get that they have a big investment with Yamaha and they need to make money but wouldn't they make more money if they could grow the number of cars racing. It seems to be a problem when the motor is almost half the cost of the total vehicle. Now they have a new seal program but what has really changed. There are builder out there telling everyone that have the new seals so here we go again. They bust people for having bad motors at the winter nationals and a couple of weeks later they are running again. So no control and enforcement = a series out of control.  Sorry Dennis but tech where I have raced is almost never done and tooling wouldn't be that big of deal either. Knowledge is something that would happen very quickly (look at the tire change) because there really are some smart people out there. As I said I really do love the Legends series but something needs to be done. We can't just keep saying "well that is what we have to work with" when there are better options out there. Someone will do it and there will be a split in the series and then it will hurt us all.

[83racedad]

Jim
 I am with you its sad to say but I think you are 100% correct. We continue to lose car counts every year not because of the engine program but a bad economy & other issues. We need to get back to what this class had been intended to do bring in racers from Karts,1/4 midgets, ucars, other forms of racing & to keep it INEXSPENSIVE. I am having people ask me on a daily basis from other forms of racing what the costs are & I tell them everything great till you need to buy this(engine). Then the response is WOW! Well we will stick to our current program or just stop because they cant afford(that)! My opinion we need to do something. I am not new to Legends Racing I am currently racing 2 cars and having been racing them for 4 years & love watching my son & friends race. We have been running a late model also for 2 years, but when I can buy a Chevy crate motor for my late model cheaper than I can buy a Legends motor something is wrong!
We will be running more Legends this year (BECAUSE) of how expensive that program has gotten. I truly hope some thing can be done in the near future to help the engine program a hopefully to grow the racing program back. Thanks for your interest in my post.

[knoxracing]

FYI- There is a reason we are all going to have the same seals- 1st stage. The barrel style seals were not really detectable.
2nd stage to be announced shortly! For those that have been told to have there crappy wore out motor resealed and then send it in for rebuild so your builder can re-use those seals- GOOD LUCK, YOU WILL BE THE SAME GUYS CRYING - ITS NOT FAIR, I GOT BUSTED!

[IraceLegends77]

Dennis I think your missing the point. They put seals on in Florida and didn't record anything as far as seals to motor. So how do they know what seal is on what motor? I watched that happen.  That is why I say we are repeating the same thing again and expecting different results ( that is the definition of crazy).  The big thing is $400 for shipping and $2500 for a rebuild and it blows up in 4 races. Yes some don't and some do I know. I know that I can get a 1200 rebuilt locally for $1500 ($25 for fuel to get it there and back) and run the crap out of it for 25 races and still blow good compression. USLC has a reputation for not doing rebuilds good and that is not only my opinion. So there is the first problem. Second is the cost.  I think if they put out a good (or even great) product most people would over look the cost. Don't take what I said personally because it is not meant or direct at you. You do a lot for Legends and have helped me personally in the past and I appreciated it. I'm just saying it is a big concern for me and my race team. Would love to see USLC  address it . Thanks

[racerrad8]

2nd stage to be announced shortly!

Does the 2nd stage have anything to do with the 1200's

You have let the cat out of the bag that you have some if not all of the information of the "2nd stage"...

Randy - RPM