Sealed Engine Upgrades

[hooligan4563]

I am getting some mixed feedback on the benefits of adding the steel sleeves to a new sealed 1250 motor. Some are saying it helps with the durability, some are saying it helps with performance, and some are saying it only helps with making my checkbook lighter and adds a risk that the motor could have issues if it is not re-assembled correctly after the sleeves are installed. Anyone have opinions on this? I'd like to get my new motor on order ASAP, and I need to make my mind up on what upgrades to include. The pinned cam and top end oiler sound like must-haves, but what about the sleeves?

[Richie25x]

an .008 over 1250 is what you want to get.

[justfreaky]

I would imagine it depends on the condition of your sleeves. Unfortunately, there is no way to check that without unsealing the engine. Also, Have the sleeves been bored before? They could be getting thin if they have been bored before. My thinking is that if you are going to get it rebuilt, do it right.

Steve

[IraceLegends77]

Make sure it has heave duty valve springs too. That might be standard now though.

[VMS Motorsports]

I think the key word in the question is "new".

I thought, and could easily be wrong as I have no affiliation with USLC, INEX, or sealed engines, that when you buy a new sealed engine from them, they automatically sleeve it as part of their making it "race ready" process, not an option...?

Perhaps one of the USLC dealers on the board could chime in

[knoxracing]

All new 1250 engines are re-sleeved with steel sleeves, American made sleeves. Depending on where you are racing and you financial situation will determine the route you take, in my opinion. The Wiseco kit is the most popular and does perform better on the dyno. Break in time is longer and more critical. Feel free to call me and I will help you if I can.

[hooligan4563]

I know it is possible to buy a new 1250 without the sleeves, and I am hearing it is about $500 cheaper. I just can't get anyone to agree on how the sleeves help. The INEX shop told me the motors run cooler with them, but my local yamaha motor expert is saying he doesn't think it would make any difference. The rebuild cost will be the same a year from now. A bunch of guys were blowing up motors in my series last year - all sleeved, some were the 8 over... my motor went over 100 races and is still running (but it came used with the car - I have no idea if it is sleeved or not)

[justfreaky]

Lets see how simple I can make this...
The engine is aluminum. Steel sleeves help to aliviate the stresses put directly to the aluminum by the pistons and help reduce heat and stress put on said aluminum.
You can hone them and bore them (some) with steel sleeves. If they were just an aluminum cylinder, they would wear out a lot faster and would not take much boring out.
Many reasons that an engine will blow; Condition of engine, Care of engine, Care in rebuild of engine, engine break-in... The list is almost endless. If you are not satisfied with the current sealed engine program, I advise that you look into an open engine. Either way could be a crap- shoot.

Steve

[hooligan4563]

Thanks Steve. That helps a bunch. I am definitely happy with the sealed motors. Like I said, mine has over a hundred races with no issues other than a pickup that failed. Just trying to decide if the sleeves are worth the money. Sounds like they may be...

[VMS Motorsports]

If you buy a new engine as stated in your first post, Dennis said it will be sleeved, no matter what you want.
Unless you don't buy it from USLC.
Then it's illegal...
 

[knoxracing]

Thanks! Yes ALLL motors are sleeved~. The factory sleeves are removed because the factory sleeving material tends to egg shape under the heat and abusive conditions produced by the Legend Car. The factory nickosil (spelling?) sleeves are removed and steel sleeves are installed. Standard bore, 4 over and 8 over are the choices. The standard re-ises the yamaha factory pistons. The 4 and 8 over are Wiseco.

[legends13]

I will add to this.... Dennis is correct, all new engines are sold Sleeved, pinned cam, and top end oiler.

My opinion, based on conversations over the years with several top engine builders:

IF, somehow, you are able to get a new engine NOT sleeved, do it. The nikasil does egg shape as Dennis said, and you will need a rebuild sooner, BUT, at the first rebuild, then you have it sleeved. The reason is that with heat cycles, the cylinders will egg shape anyway. If you wait until the first rebuild, the block has been heat cycled and then when you sleeve it, it will last longer.

Again, this is IF you could get in without sleeving to begin with. Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, you can't do that.

Also, If you are trying to save money, don't go with the .08 engine new. If you do, the first time it needs to be bored, it will cost you new sleeves. If you go stock bore, you get at least 2 re bores without new sleeves.

If  Money doesn't matter, go with the .08 over

[Grape Competition Develop]

First thing you need to ask youself when trying to be an educated consumer is:  

Do the japanese engineers who designed and built this engine have engineering degrees as well as engine sim programs.... Thats a big yes.

Does USLC have any mechanical engineers on staff who are more up to speed on the fj/xj platform than the REAL engineers who designed and manufactured this engine........

Next question, or advice.  Pull a gram scale out and compare weights of a wiseco and stock yamaha pistion and see if the non existant college grads at USLC have calculated the added strain of 30+grams of piston weight on the oem connecting rod.  This isnt magic folks.  USLC just cant find a way to mark up an oem piston that cones standard in a $4500 boat anchor.

Pic included is of a fantastic job of removing stock liner and replacing with 30 year old technology.   This was an engine that ran 3 races and blew a head gasket.  I have milled .006" from the deck surface and the tool still hasnt touched the steel sleeve.

[legends13]

Grape, so by your statement, you would throw out a cylinder everytime it needed to be bored? Seriously, at some point, you need to resleeve, no matter what you do on the initial build. Or am I missing something? You have 1 picture that you have posted previously, and now again here, showing a bad sleeve install. i havent heard of any others with this issue. Are the more out there? Likely. Is it a huge deal? Doubtful. These do need to be resleeved at some point, or you are wasting a LOT of money replacing cylinders. I just don't agree the sleeving has to has to be done the first build....

[knoxracing]

AHHHH you forgot a couple things. This motor was NOT designed to run 10,500 rpm's under the heat and weight conditions it is exposed to in a Legend Car. The dyno does not lie (chassis dyno). The stock liners DID not hold up even on the stock bore. I am not an engineer and I figured that out all by myself.