Sealed Motors?

[knoxracing]

They cant afford not to at this point. For the long term good of  the Legend Car program they need to handle it now. It has hurt the series and they need to handle it now. If this makes people sell out, they should have followed the rules in the first place. When it comes down to it the rules are being followed by the majority and minority should not be allowed to ruin this program

[knoxracing]

"They were legal but the seals were tampered with" What part of that of this is not right? All of it. To answer your statement fairly, a couple were  done according to the motor specs in the rule book, a couple motors were junk and  whoever built them ripped there customers off. THEN were those that were not legal by any rules . You have to understand that these were in Charlotte, they know from first ahnd knowledge that there are many illegal built motors that would notbe legal under the rule book. If this is not handled what will happen?

[slack11]

I love the concept of a sealed engine program, I think IN THEORY it is a good idea....but I have never seen it work out well in the real world.

Has there been a series that used a sealed program that worked out extremely well?   Around here the sportsman modifieds all run crates, and I'm not sure any of them are true crate "sealed" anymore.

Like I said I love the concept, I just bought a car with a sealed motor, and will following the rules, but a simple seal is too easy to manipulate.  I think they outta cut the seals off, and have a good tech program to prevent cheating .  What is the point of having seals if they now have  to be treated and teched the same way as an open?  The whole idea of the seals is so you don't have to worry about tech on the motors, they are sealed.

[justfreaky]

There are ways to cheat with any engine. Will they eventually be found out? Usually; If someone is willing to protest that engine.
I would guess that some whine about other engines, but would pitch a fit if theirs was protested. I get all kinds of stories about cheaters. Are they out there? Yes. Are they the norm? I don't think so. Do some push the rules to the maximum. Sure! If you are going to run the big money races, or series, I think you have to be right on the edge. Sealed or unsealed; It's the same story.  My opinion, IF you are going to run a spec class; Then EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY should be spec. Problem is that there are not enough trained techs or equipment available at some tracks. Some tracks allow illegal cars just to build car counts. That has been a problem throughout the years. Will there ever be a complete answer to the cheaters? Likely not.  My thoughts; For whatever one might think they are worth.

Steve

[knoxracing]

Steve I agree 100%   I believe USLC has allowed this to get to the point its at, now they either fix it or open the motor program up.

[llbuckshotll]

1350's are out there and can be easily checked for with a bore tool. USLC has at least one....maybe more, it was used at our track last year. Simply remove the spark plug and insert the tool, it tells you the size of the cylinder thus measuring cc's.  Heres a link to one.

http://www.minisprintracing.com/products.htm

[justfreaky]

My point was that there are not enough trained techs or equipment. Also, some tracks know that cars aren't legal, but allow them to build car counts.
Not that the technology isn't available. Some of the tools can be quite expensive. Track owners are usually not willing to spend the money that it costs for the tools.

Steve

[jim19]

then you would just have to protest their engine and come up with the money.....or what if  Inex brought back the engine claimer rules....I think they were better than the current protest rules.

[Legends57x]

Very good discussion....I agree with Dennis that USLC needs to do SOMETHING in order turn the tide before this engine deal gets any further out of hand, but I also agree with Steve.  Too many tracks do not have the proper tools and trained personnel at the track to apply these rules properly.  Our area dirt track has one tech inspector for all FIVE divisions at the track each week.  So in other words, he is in charge of inspecting and teching over 100 cars every night, not a small task by any means.  He does have proper tools and  hired assistants, but does has final say in all rulings.  So it is almost impossible to expect this tech inspector to be able to watch over all these cars and catch everything.   At other area asphalt tracks, the same inspector is in charge of only the INEX Legends class, the way is should be, and he is able to dedicate his night to doing what he is supposed to do.   So depending at where you race and how the tech inspecting is set up, the division may not get the full attention by the tech inspector as originally intended. 

[Chunk]

If there were engines that were within spec and everything fine, but the seals were tampered with, tells you something. From what I've been told, the "engine shop" at both 600 locations doesn't look like an "engine shop", but more like a place where they throw stuff together. A buddy that toured the "engine shop" in NC was told by the guys there that all the engines come off the dyno with a variance of 15 horsepower. That is horrible!!!! Do you think that maybe people get stuff built by other people because 600 just isn't that good at what they do?? I have heard horrible stories about 600's new engines having to be rebuilt after 15 races? Once again horrible! I will keep my 1200 as long as I can until something changes. I'm all for sealing stuff, but only if qualified guys are building the engines....it's just a mess right now.

[knoxracing]

Chunk I challenge that statement!
I have been around the engine shop in Charlotte ALOT; It is very nice. They hve quality stuff and if you do not fit the bill you are let go, it has happend more than once in the last year. I do not want to argue, but when somemoe says "my buddy said" it a problem. I am telling you what i see first hand on a regular basis, are there problems, hell ya these are race motors rebuilt and  THEN installed and maintained by customers. That produces issues as does trying rebuild air cooled race engines of all origin. Guys I encourage anyone to tour the engine shop.

[Chunk]

I have been to the shop in Vegas and am not impressed with the equipment or lack there of that they had. My friend toured the one in Charlotte and said the same thing. He is a mechanic by proffesion and has been in racing for a long time. I know you will side with Inex on this issue, as you should. I just don't like that the most knowledgable and qualified people aren't allowed to build engines for people, that's all. In a perfect world, everyone would have the exact same engine with the exact same power and everyone would be hunky dory. However, that's unlikely. I'd rather open them up and police them like they used to. It's assanine that a guy should have to ship an engine across the country to replace a head gasket or valve seat. I'll stick with my 1200 for now and get into super stocks next year! I love these cars but some stuff, I just don't agree with

[justfreaky]

To save arguement on the sealed engine program; If you don't want it, or like it; Go to an open engine program and have whomever you like build your engine.
My brother is a certified motorcycle mechanic and does all my engine work for me.
My .02 for what it's worth.

Steve

[Chunk]

I agree Steve, but someday 1200's won't be legal either...

[justfreaky]

I agree Steve, but someday 1200's won't be legal either...

I do think that at some point engine choice will likely change. These engines are getting pretty old. If and when they (INEX) decide to make some sort of engine change, it will likely be one of the "Big Four" (Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki). As with the dwarf cars, any engine change will probably lean towards a water cooled, fuel injected engines.
They are the engines that are most widely used in current bikes. Rules still vary from state to state, or club to club, in the dwarf car world. There has been a lot of discussion on a set of national rules on the dwarf car sites. Both sealed and unsealed engines are being discussed. Should be interesting to see what impact these discussions have in the legends car world.

Steve