Oil overflow and venting

[Bigmil]

What does everybody use for oil overflow and venting.  I have changed my setup several times and have found that a fairly large and complicated system is necessary to keep oil from pushing out the vent filters.
I bought the car used with a 1 quart Jaz tank that had two vents coming in (one from the standard crankcase vent and the other from a modified oil fill cap with a vent tube).  Then there were two vent filters hooked up to the top and a single drain line coming out from the the bottom of the Jaz tank going to the rear of the engine oil pan.
Using that system I did get some oil coming out the vents (and all over my fender and eventually onto my back tire) but I attributed that to overfilling the oil system.

Next I tried what I saw on another persons car.  I just ran a single vent line to a single vent filter 2-3 feet from the crankcase vent.  This was disastrous as when I finished the feature I had oil all over my fender, running boards rear quarter and right rear tire as well as all over the back of the engine bay.

I am currently going back to a version of what was originally on there and plan on testing it this weekend.

I don't see these kind of complicated systems on other guys cars.    I have seen the aluminum tanks on other cars with one or two inputs but those things are like $100 and I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend that kinda money yet.

Does anybody else have this kinda oil pushing out problem (is this indicative of a larger problem?) and what does everybody use here......any pictures would be helpful.

[VMS Motorsports]

To start, the set-up your car came with is INEX  illegal, you can only  run one breather/vent tube either from the stock  breather outlet or from the oil filler cap.
Where on the oil pan were these lines "draining"  to? A picture of that would be interesting, haven't seen that, but we are dirt people.
If you run on asphalt, the running of a catch can is mandatory, dirt, its not. We just run a 9" tube from the breather to a breather filter.

What are you running for oil? Possibility of a poor grade oil foaming and pushing out?
Whats your oil temp?
Do you have a history on the engine? If it's that much blow-by, it's time for a new one/rebuild.
I have aluminum single inlet catch cans with breathers and petcock in stock for alot less than $100, but theres no point if you have a larger issue.

With the system that came with it, try running only the vent tube from the breather outlet on the engine  to the catch can, plugging all extra holes, drain lines, flux capacitors, etc., and see what happens. ..no lines back to the oil pan or anything, just the tube from the breather to the can and see what happens. This way you can also monitor how much oil you are actually pushing out. May not be alot, but when spread all over your car it could look worse than it is.

[thunder938]

1st thing remove the vent line from the oil cap.  There is PSI there and will but too much psi at the over flow and push oil out.  How much oil do you get on the fender?  Most cars put out  some oil residue to the overflow.  Also these cars you have to find how much oil is correct for your set up and type of track.  IF you are just a few ounces over the correct oil level it will push out.  When you say the the oil drain to the pan I guess that is the rear oil port on the left side of the pan. 

[VMS Motorsports]

1st thing remove the vent line from the oil cap.  There is PSI there and will but too much psi at the over flow and push oil out.  How much oil do you get on the fender?  Most cars put out  some oil residue to the overflow.  Also these cars you have to find how much oil is correct for your set up and type of track.  IF you are just a few ounces over the correct oil level it will push out.  When you say the the oil drain to the pan I guess that is the rear oil port on the left side of the pan. 

If the line is running to the rear port, where is the line running from the front port? The rear port on the left side is a return port, but the front line is a low pressure port unless shimmed...where is that line going? 

[Bigmil]

I appreciate ya'lls help.

The oil line runs to the back port in the oil pan.  I will try and take pictures when I get home tonight and postem.  It sound like that drain isn't really a drain?  I have seen other people run a catch can with the line coming out of the oil fill tube and going into the inlet of the catch can and then the bottom of the catch can plumbed to the crankcase vent port.  The catch can had one vent filter on top.  Would this be illegal too?

I don't have much of a history with this engine as I blew my last one (the starter gear and chain broke and sent shrapnel through the rest of the engine).  So I had to go cheap and buy a used engine from a reputable guy I know.  It;'s an open 1200 with about 20 races on it's first rebuild.  My sealed engine blew out some oil too but it didn't seem like this much.

I run Amsoil 20w-50 synthetic so I don't think it's an oil quality issue.  My oil temps go through the roof (over 300 I think) but all the other guys I run with said that was normal?

I didn't know I could only run one oil vent tube....thats good to know.  I plan on trying just the main crankcase vent tube to the catch can with one filter coming out.  I may need to plumb the drain line in only because the Jaz tank has a valve on the bottom that I don't think will stay shut during the vibrations of a race.

I ran the car for 30 minutes last night and crawled under it and found that I also had oil leaking arounf the crankcase to head seal (on the exhaust side) and I found a small hole in one of the oil lines.

I will be spending most of tonight re-plumbing the oil lines with new hoses and fitting that I just bought to eliminate that issue.

The oil onthe fender seemed like a lot but I know that when oil sporeads out it looks worse than it really is.  All I know is that it was badd enough to get on my back quarter panel and on my RR tire which made the last part of the race reall fun to drive (fun but not so fast).

I will try and take some pics tonight and postem of the whole setup.

Thanks for you help.

Gerad

[thunder938]

The rear port on the pan has NO psi and Yes it used for a return in many cases.  The front port on the oil pan has PSI, but it is the low side of the oil pump. (unless shimmed)  Does the motor push oil all the time? only at a high speed track?

[VMS Motorsports]

Did you flush the cooler before you put in the new engine, or did you circulate the shrapnel through your new engine?
Plumbing pics ics would be great, especially to see where the line from the front port on the exhaust side is going.
As stated by someone else, there is PSI at the fill cap, so I don't see a good reason to do that...you're pushing oil out on purpose and defeating the system. Once again, Im just a dirt guy, maybe theres something I don't know, but the whole set-up sure seems wrong
What are you running for a cooler?
I run dirt (which I would assume would get hotter because the cooler and grill get plugged with mud, but don't know ) and haven't hit 200 degrees in a 20 lap feature yet this season.

[Bigmil]

Crap I just wrote a whole bunch and my files were to big now I lost it alll......

I don't know hopw to resize my pics soooo...I can only post one.

Anyway I kinda did like you were saying and ran the crankcase line to the JAZ tank and then ran one breather of the tank aswell (I closed off the other two ports).  I then ran the drain line to the rear port of the oil pan.  I did zip tie the drain closed on the JAZ tank so I can see how much oil actually come out.

I never did clean the oil cooler out.  But I did chage the oil tonight hoping that if soemthing was loose running around I would get it?  Not sure wht brand the oil cooler is.  The front port oil line (on the oil pan) goes to the oil filter holder.  I use the Hanscott three line oil filter relocation package.

The car never spurts out oil when at idle or when revving high while parked.  Seems to only happen on the track.  Maybe I just had it to full?

Anywya I run atHigh Banked Anderson Sppedway (in Indiana) tommorow so we'll see if if this fixes it.  I sure don't want to be worring about the oil all night long.

I will try and re-post the pics as soon as I can get on my other pc and resize them.

Thanks again

Gerad

[justfreaky]

Gerad,

Try this thread. Randy explains how he hooks up the catch can. There are a couple of pics.
http://www.legendsracer.com/index.php?topic=487.0

Steve

[Bigmil]

I sent the pics to justfreaky to see if could post them for me.

Ok, so here is what happened this weekend.  We ran all night with zero oil blowbuy and zero oil going into the catch can???
The only thing I can thin is that the big difference is the flat tracks vs. the high banked tracks?  I don't know, but I am sticking with my current setup until it fails me.  We are running Kentucky Speedway this upcoming friday and that is as flat as it gets so we will see how it works.

Thanks!!
Gerad

[justfreaky]

Gerad,

Did not receive pics.
Send to justfreaky@3riversdbs.net.
I will resize and post for you.

Steve

[Bigmil]

I still haven't gotten the pics to you freaky....not sure why it ain't workin?

But good nes is that all my problems are solved.....or at least the oil over flow is...

I ran Kentucky (very flat track) and had no issues at all, infact I sealed the drain on my catchcan to see how much it caught and nothing was in there!
I then ran at Columbus (moderate bank but high G's and constant turning) and I probably got a half a quart in the catch can....but luckily still no spillage onto my fenders and tires.  Just drained it after the race and continued on!!

We got our computer working again so I will try for more pics now that I can resize them.  Still don't know why email ain't workin with ya Freaky?

Thanks for all ya'lls help!
Gerad

[Rcrguy24]

Hey Gerad, bringing up an old thread, but I had the exact same problem you described this weekend.  I raced saturday night at a high banked track and it was hot out (90 degrees) and I got a good bit of oil out of my overfill filter (enough that it got all over my visor), then monday I raced at a low banked very fast track about 95 degrees out and during the feature (35 laps) i eneded up with oil all down the right side of my car, fenders, rr tire, and everything...like you said it sure made it interesting to drive.  I raced 2 weeks ago at these same tracks but only about 75-80 degrees out with the same oil and overflow setup and I got no overflow.  Do you all think my engine temps just got alot hotter causing more oil overflow? like Gerad said earlier I just want to make sure this isn't an indication of a bigger problem (only about 6 races since rebuild on 1250). Just curious since our situations seem so similiar.  Thanks!
Joe

[Bigmil]

I don't know Joe, maybe some of these other guys can help.  I blew 2 engines last year and one more this past weekend so I may not be a good person to get advice from.......
I know that as the motor gets older and more races on it that it will blow by more and thus get more out the vent but as it having to do with the higher temps, I don't know.
What oil temps are you running this past weekend compared to before when it was cooler out?

Gerad

[knoxracing]

The biggest reason for blow by is improper oil level.  Your oil should be a MAX of 3/4 up the window when the engine is NOT running and sitting on a level surface. I have plumbed cans in every way you can think of, the most effective way i have found is mounting the can on the fire wall, run a line from the vent to the bottom of the can, and a return line from the side of the can to the fill port. A big feature in this case is the fact that ALOT of heat rolls out of the fill port and out the vented can. I have plumbed to the oil pan with not alot of success.
Dennis Knox
Buckeye Legends
330-3109212