Author Topic: 1200 timing chain specs.  (Read 8308 times)

Offline Legends16

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1200 timing chain specs.
« on: September 14, 2013, 09:14:25 am »
Ive been told you can measure points on the timing chain to see if its streched. Can anyone tell me wthe the specs are?

Thanks,

Eric




Offline racerrad8

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 11:37:14 am »
There is no measurement point from Yamaha to check for stretch other than to compare to a new one when it is removed form the engine.

Randy - RPM

Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.


Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 05:05:12 pm »
Thanks Randy.

Aparently my motor has one.

What are peoples thoughts on using what they call an endless chain? The kind you can install on the motor and join the two halves with a rivited link. This would be so I dont have to have the motor torn down to replave it.

Offline racerrad8

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 07:49:15 pm »
Actually an endless chain is a complete chain that has been factory riveted together making it, "endless".

You would need to be able to buy the chain in bulk or cut and modify an endless chain to use a master link.

I have heard of people using them, but I personally never have.

The thought of the master link due to it being a link chain instead of a roller spooks me. Plus the chain is in contact with all three of the chain guides and if the clip was to snag on a guide the link will no longer be secured.

With that said,  I have never tried one.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.

Gimpster

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 12:12:07 pm »
 Yamaha parts has a listing for the chain length if you call a dealer, but it is wrong. I am not totally sure exactly the measurement they have listed but it is around 6 or 8 inches short. There are plate chain master links available and engine platforms in the past that have utilized them without issue. Main problem is improper installation of the link  which causes chain failure. I know where to get the links but am not really willing to reveal the source. As far as length.. count the links of the original chain. Chain stretch is normally seen as pin wear on the links.  When engines get old or suffer a broken cam, it is advised to change the chain. Stretched chains and worn guides directly lead to poor performance and lack of cam duration. I strongly recommend replacing the chain the right way by splitting the case.  It is not a tough job to do. Once all the bolts are removed and correct placement noted for re-install, the only real tricky part is to totally split the cases and to remove the starter and alternator sprag and idler pivot pins to release the 2 case halves from each other. Their drive chains will not allow the cases to be split far enough apart to lift the crankshaft up and allow timing chain removal and install. Next fails are during reassembly. Number one is so called back yard mechanics assembling the cases using regular silicone instead of the required Yamabond, Hondabond  or the substitute called Unibond. Excessive application (only a few millimeter bead is recommended) plus applying it within 3 millimeters of the crankshaft on the cases will lead t0 crank failure. Not lubing the crank journals during install of case halves is another fail often seen. Next is failure of improper ring placement or lack of help while slipping the cylinder over the pistons and snagging a ring (easy to do) or not having the ring ends placed properly.
 Whatever you do, do it wisely or have someone with experience do it right. Example is recently I had a local top runner throw a used chain into an engine, in a pinch while pushed for time. I did it against my recommendation (also before and after my good friend Ken Joyce warned me of the consequences, LOL ). The motor ran real strong and won a two day affair here, but failed shortly thereafter which I knew it would. And of coarse, because of the failure for installing a used chain like I was told to do.... I am getting stiffed on payment of the overhaul (Imagine that...)
 I must say, do it right and install the factory new chain don't try to fix it with a band-aid. If you were close to me, I would install it for you for 2 or 3 hundred bucks plus the cost of the chain...
  
~Gimpster~


Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 12:25:01 pm »
Thanks again Randy.

    Although its been a year racing the legend off and on I'm still pretty new. I've struggled with a few engine issues and I'm at the point where I just need to get on track and get some seat time. I bought a used 1100 out of a bike for dirt cheap money but found that the timing chain is in pretty bad shape. To make a long story short, I'm having an experienced motorcycle mechanic look at it. His plan is to replace the chain by installing an endless chain and riveting it once its installed to avoid pulling the motor apart. I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm on a tight budget.

Thanks again,

Eric


Gimpster

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 12:44:05 pm »
Cam chain is a 79rh2015 and is 156 links long

Good luck

~Gimpster~

Offline racerrad8

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 03:39:14 pm »
Eric,

Why does he say the chain is stretched?

Is it because the cam indicator holes are not in the caps? That is usually mean the cams have been installed incorrectly from guys working on their bike engines.

You can compensate for a stretched chain by the use of Slotted Camshaft Gears. I would install them and adjust the cams back to where they are supposed to be other than changing the chain with a master link.

But the question still stands, how does he know it is stretched if he has not removed it to compare to a new one.

You need to ask some more questions before moving forward, no matter how "experienced" your mechanic says he is...

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.


Offline Grape Competition Develop

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 03:40:12 pm »
Thanks again Randy.

    Although its been a year racing the legend off and on I'm still pretty new. I've struggled with a few engine issues and I'm at the point where I just need to get on track and get some seat time. I bought a used 1100 out of a bike for dirt cheap money but found that the timing chain is in pretty bad shape. To make a long story short, I'm having an experienced motorcycle mechanic look at it. His plan is to replace the chain by installing an endless chain and riveting it once its installed to avoid pulling the motor apart. I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm on a tight budget.

Thanks again,

Eric

he is not experienced if he has sold you a story about replacing a chain without splitting cases...........find somebody else.

Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 timing chain specs.
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 11:13:04 pm »
We believe its stretched because we've replaced the tentioner and it completely maxes out. The guides apear to be ok but the chain doesn't look like it sits on the cam gears the way it should even when we press it against the gears.  The cam gears look ok a well. Guys, this stock bike motor has 50-60k on it. I bought it for next to nothing.

The mechanic is a successful bike racer that's done this sort of thing before.

Thanks for the replies,

Eric


 

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