New, and confused....

[Negulator]

I am new to this form of racing, and am really confused currently....I have read through all of these threads and I still don't understand?
My used 1250 (sealed) will not start!
My starter is spinning, and I can see the generator is spinning also when starter is winding over, however the motor is not turning over?
I have read throughout this site, that the starter chain is broken and the motor needs to be split to repair. I am trying to avoid as much as possible as you can understand.
Some things that are confusing me are:
A) Everything was working fine, and then suddenly (on raceday of course) the starter will not engage? If the starter chain broke (during practice), don't you think I would of heard something...don't you think I would hear something when I got the motor running (had to bump start the car, and ran my heat race then the Main feature)?
B) Heard/Read that perhaps the oil might be too think causing slippage? Would this make the car harder to shift also? If so what would everyone recommend running for oil?
C) The gear that I can see when the starter is removed does spin both directions, however only one direction causes the generator to spin?
D) Is there any test that I can preform to see what is happening prior to me sending the motor off
 to be repaired?

Any help would be appreciated!

[justfreaky]

You are going to be very limited in what you will be able to open up and check on your sealed engine.
Good Luck,

Steve

[VMS Motorsports]

Did you spin the car when everything was working fine?

[Negulator]

Yes I spun the car, and ended up rolling backwards (didn't know the rule about not letting the car spin backwards).
Originally lost the starter, opened up the case and poured the brushes out after I found the problem.
Replaced the starter, and everything was working fine....up until race day (started fine about 30 or so times).
No noise, no rattling (that I have read on this site, that the starter chain will cause rattling), no issues with the motor/transmission?

This is why I am confused as to how anything can be broken inside, everything I have ever owned and broke in the past I have always been able to tell there is something not right.

This is why I am hoping it is an oil issue, or something silly that I am overlooking?
Sending it off for repair is going to be time consuming, and not to mention EXPENSIVE (but I understand that's racing!).

[racerrad8]

C) The gear that I can see when the starter is removed does spin both directions, however only one direction causes the generator to spin?

D) Is there any test that I can preform to see what is happening prior to me sending the motor off
 to be repaired?

If you can turn the starter gear with your finger and it turns the alternator, then the start chain that connects the crankshaft to the alternator shaft & starter drive is broken.

Pull the oil pan, if the chain is broken you will see it all bunched up in the case or lying in the oil pan with the other broken bits of the chain links..

That is going to need to be send back for a complete disassembly as the chain cannot be replaced without pulling the crank out of the case which requires the pistons & cams to come out.

Randy - RPM

Randy - RPM

[Negulator]

Thanks everyone for the help.
I am learning everyday......hard way to learn though!

[justfreaky]

Any good news? 

[Negulator]

Nope....motor is heading to the engine shop tomorrow.
I was talking to the local certified dealer, and they told me they were very sorry! But they were going to have to split the motor.

I wish I could afford to do a complete rebuild while it is there, but as I said before I just recently got back into racing and this is not what I needed.
Better yet, I wish I could just buy one of their new motor's sitting on the floor, and be able to get this one rebuilt to have as a spare.
They are going to ensure nothing is wrong while they are in there, and assured me that everything will be OK.
But things will come...it all takes time, and patients.

Thanks for everyone's help!
I will be sure to update when I hear from the motor shop as to the results of the find.

PS: GREAT WEB SITE!!!! LOTS OF GREAT INFORMATION. I think my wife is going to kill me, I keep taking the laptop (or as I refer to it as $2,000.00 deck of cards) from her and reading this site before bedtime. She hasn't been able to play solitaire in 2-3 nights!

[amp racing]

please keep us informed on the progress.
joe

[Negulator]

To update everyone reading this post....
Motor was removed sent to the engine shop.
Noticed when I drained the oil there was a milky look to the oil, and it was replaced right before race night when all the damages occurred.....

A) The starter chain connected from the starter drive to the crank broke! When it broke it didn't simply break, it looks like it exploded inside the engine. There was several pieces of the starter chain throughout the oil pan. We also think when it broke it collected other parts throughout the wet system.
B) The oil pump was damaged, looks like the chain wrapped around this and chewed it up like HUBBA BUBBA gum.
C) A piece of the case was damaged, perhaps where the chain was slapping around inside the motor.

How this engine still ran as good as it did, with no noises while running has me baffled?

All other pieces look to be OK, they are checking the crank now, but looks OK. Rods, pistons (minor marks), cams, head, etc all good. Engine shop is checking all avenues to ensure everything is OK, we are basically doing a complete rebuild now, and I will be able to have this motor on hand as a spare. Waiting to gather funds to order a new motor, right now there is nothing that I can find in the Maritimes. Taking a couple of weeks off before we head to the track again.

Though 1st week returning to racing after being away for 12-13 years. Biggest problem I have is the start up cost that my wife is monitoring like a HAWK! LOL!!!

I am still surprised @ 10,500 rpms this didn't simply explode? Yamaha you will now have all my business!!!

[knoxracing]

I have seen this happen multiple times over the years. Hopefully you will be back in full swing soon!

[Negulator]

Forgot to update the final results....I will try to take pictures tonight of paperweight parts.

For anyone who doesn't know please ensure "if you ROLL BACKWARDS DURING A SPIN, do not run the car until taken apart and repaired".
I didn't know any better, and after my starter problems, choose to run the car by bump starting to complete the feature.
When this chain (starter) breaks inside the engine, it breaks a lot of other parts! which for the most part means $$$$.$$

[IraceLegends77]

Been there done that.

[amp racing]

you need to put the clutch in, no damage if the clutch is in..saves a lot of money..
joe

[IraceLegends77]

With mine I never spun and never had to put in a starter ever. It just broke and locked up the motor as it went down and rapped around the crank. NOT GOOD.