Author Topic: 1200 head stud spin.  (Read 7180 times)

Offline Legends16

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1200 head stud spin.
« on: June 30, 2013, 09:41:04 pm »
Hey guys,

      My open 1200 motor was making the dreaded blown head gasket chirp on startup during my last race.

     When I went to check the head bolts I found that two of the studs were spining.  They don't tighten into the head and they don't pull out either. I'm assuming the head is either stripped or the studs are or they are broken.

      My father is an experienced mechanic but it inexperienced when it comes to motorcycle engines. What is the best way to fix this, a helicoil? What about the timing chain? How difficult of a job is this?




Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 09:42:33 pm »
Thanks in advance guys,

Eric


Gimpster

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 09:51:28 pm »
No quick fix.. the right way is basically the only way. Remove the head and cylinder. There is an insert that is way better than Heli Coils, they are called Time-Serts.  They are a solid insert. While you have the head off, have it checked for warpage. Most likely if the stud is stripped, it was torqued and over torqued trying to fix a leaking head gasket from a warped head.

~G~

Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 07:21:12 am »
Thanks Gimpster, What about the timming chain?

Gimpster

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 12:50:22 pm »
No biggie.. you are sure that the stud is spinning and not just the head nut not stripped ? If so..
Remove the valve cover ( to slip it off while engine is in the chassis, remove clutch slave cylinder bolts and move the slave cylinder aside to allow valve cover clearance during c/c removal)
Remove the inspection plate from the lower center of the firewall
Remove the crank case timing cover through the access hole from the previous step
Remove the carburat0rs and set them aside to allow access to the timing chain tensioner
Look at the side of the cam gears, you will see markings indicating "I" and "E" depending if installed on the intake cam or exhaust cam
You want to turn the engine to top dead center on the compression stroke, rotate the engine clockwise and watch the intake cam lobe on the number one cylinder, TDC will be shortly after the intake valve closes. The cam markings should even with the outside valve cover mounting surface of the head and the crankshaft marking should be on the timing marks as viewed through the timing inspection access removed previously
Look at the markings on the camshaft holders, they are marked "1I", "1E", "2I", "2E" etc... these holders must be reinstalled after removal in the same place and direction as they are line bored straight to match the head.
Loosen the bolt on the end of the cam chain tensioner (located center of the cylinder below where the carbs were removed)
Remove the chain guide in the center of the cylinder head between the cams by removing the 4 mounting bolts
Inside the end of the tensioner, there is a slot, reach in with a flat blade screwdriver and turn it, you will feel spring tension while turning one direction, continure turning against the spring tension and hold the screwdriver once the chain is loose. Push down on the  cam chain where the upper center guide between the cams was removed, lift up on the chain and slip it off the cam gears (still holding tension against the tensioner with the screwdriver)
Once the chain is removed from the gears, remove the cam chain tensioner.. another option is to simply remove the 2 bolts that mount the tensioner but I advise  loosening the bolt on the end first for later cam chain install purpose.
Remove the cam holder bolts and while removing the holders, account for all guide dowels that are between the holders and head while removing (don't drop them into the bottom end of the engine)
Once they are removed, the cams can be removed to allow removal of the head, once again account for head guide dowels when the head is removed
Remove the cylinder by slipping it up and away from the pistons, as the pistons clear the cylinder, be careful not to damage them as they will flip side to side while you slip the cylinder away from the other pistons (2 will be up and 2 will be down) and also account for guide dowels between the cylinder and engine case
This will gain access to the cylinder studs for installation of a thread insert
Time Serts are the right way to repair the threads and generally come in a kit with the right size drill bit, tap and installation tool. During install into the case I will use green Loctite to hold them into place. Some techs will use JB Quick Weld to hold them from spinning but I like the green Loctite because if their is a thread issue later on again, they can be removed by heating the engine case
Let me know if you are this far and need more assistance

~Gimpster~


Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 12:28:55 pm »
Thanks Gimpster,

     That was a very descriptive answer, I may have to print it out at some point. I dont know if the block is stripped or if the stud is damaged. All I know is its not grabbing. I assume there is an issue with the block. This must have happened rather recently as I did a compression tests 3 races ago and all was well.

    Im going to swap motors for the time being, check this one out at some point.

    Thanks again for the input,

Eric


Gimpster

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 12:01:32 am »
 If you get around to tackling the repair some day, private message me and I will shoot you my cell number. I'll walk you through the repair that way. If you were local I would fix it for you.

~Gimp~

Offline Legends16

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Re: 1200 head stud spin.
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2013, 02:16:17 pm »
More than kind of you Gimp. Ill keep that in mind. We'll see, more than likely Ill have the motor rebuilt. It's got a lot of miles on it.

Have a happy 4th!

Eric