Inex rule changes 2013

[knoxracing]

Whatever the method, fix it and do not expect the guys with legal shit to pay the bill, good tech and staying on top of this would have prevented all this! If we are staying sealed then get it going and inspect these motors with thorough tech on a consistant bassis.

If we all sat down had a beer or two, I BET we are all on pretty much the same page wanting the same end result!

[slack11]

I agree.... What will stop this process from starting all over again.....  Pull the old seals, get it resealed, then they return to the racer.  The racer can do the exact same thing as before, remove the seals , rebuild, then put it back together.... To me they are band-aiding the real problem, how easy it is to get behind the seals.  

What is to say next year at this same time the same exact problem won't be back.  

They are trying to get rid of the illegal motors, I get that... But they are doing nothing to prevent it from happening again in the future.  The only true way to prevent it would be to do tech at the track on the sealed motors, but at that point there would be no point in having seals at all.....

[knoxracing]

You know Scott I am not saying its impossible to have paid techs. Jim is a pretty straight up guy as he is a pretty good tech. They did remove quite a few seals and found two or three tampered seals. Again after reading your last post, we too agree on alot. AND YES my idea of tech with seals could be a problem if they are not careful, but it does not have to be a problem. Last time the problem grew as sealed builders were given handfuls of seals with little tracking. A builder out of Vegas (no names, he built a hell of a motor- best we have ever had altthough 50% blew up, lol) was reasponsible for the e-bay sale, that was stopped and shortly after the seal type changed. rather we seal them all or unseal them all, it comes down to trained tech officials with the proper tools to do the proper job! I try to look at the program USLC has chosen to go with, I can not change it. If this is what we are doing, then lets do it right and thoroughly!

[amp racing]

i am begining to think this is uslc's way of testing the waters before setting it in stone, like a political survey..put the info out there secretly and judge the reaction....

joe

[slack11]

Were the seals that were tampered with at the winter nationals the old style seals or the new style (purple) seals.....

[amf17]

Dennis knox
         
                    you sure spend alot of time defending 600's motor shop. if 600 spent the same time and effort on qaulity control that you spend defending them we would not be having this conversation!!!
 
I see the fix for this one of two ways either 600 makes all motors sealed and techs the seals with a iron fist or no seals and use the rule book to control it.

[Legends16]

And if it wernt for Dennis, none of us would be having this conversation. I mean that in a good way. Thank you sir for keeping us informed. Someone has too.

Has anyone heard back from Inex regarding these changes?

[knoxracing]

The one thing that is for sure, these topics bring ALL KINDS of new folks to this site, wonder where they come from and who refers them? I am glad as long as we keep it civil and we all understand that none of us make any of the decisions at USLC.

[FFmedic]

I received a personal call from John Hagen. He was a little mad that this topic got released as it wasn't supposed to be made public till they discussed it more.  I stated my concerns and he understood fully.  He stated that the racer would be responsible for any gaskets and the return shipping only.  He also stated that they are looking at other options too.  Stated that they are looking at sending tech officials to larger events to look at seals and to replace them.  They are doing this to even out the playing field, which I agreed with.  They are considering all options and were having a meeting today regarding seals.

So I guess we will wait and see what happens in the next few weeks when he publicly announces the details.

[amp racing]

i do not understand why they would have to take anything off.. remove valve cover check cams.. remove clutch cover check rods..use a bore scope check pistons...compression gauge to check compression.. any tech guy could do it..reseal and be done..

[backstretchwall]

A little history for all you new folks. Back in Late 2006/early 2007, 600 Racing (now USLC) found out they had an issue with cheated up sealed motors. This was prior to the program being in house. The builder of the cheated up engine? GE Chapman... 600 Racing fired GE, as they should have. Then, someone decided that they should bring the program in house. In order to do that, they needed a proven engine builder. Who would that be? None of the big name builders would take the job. Curt, Larry, Ken, etc... all were making good money building sealed motors, as well as a ton of 1200 motors. Why would they want to give that up to go work for 600? So 600 had this great idea, but no one to run it. Hey, wait a minute. GE is available, remember, he was fired for cheating. So.... GE became the head engine builder.

Wow, great idea.... Let's put the biggest cheater in legends, in charge of the sealed engine program. Do you really wonder why things are what they are now?

And as far a s quality, there are many more than 1 engine in florida that are blowing absurd amounts of oil. Do the engine guys at USLC even know that you need to set the ring gap, and that it isn't just throw a new set of rings in and call it good?

I would LOVE to see the USLC engine program succeed, but not a the cost of the competitors. fix the PROBLEM! and the problem is QUALITY.  If the engines coming from USLC lasted as long as engines from Larry, Curt, Ken, Doug, and Hank, no one would risk getting caught illegal. They would happily pay for a rebuild from USLC and be done. But how many times can you blame the competitor for "too much oil" or "too little oil" or any number of excuses that USLC gives.

[knoxracing]

Your History is only half correct and I WILL NOT GO INTO THAT HERE ON THIS SITE!!!!! YOU ARE 50% CORRECT! There is the REST OF THE STORY .
You honestly think that all the motors built by the builders during the sealed years that had many builders were legal??  Not to be rude but thats funny. I saw so much crap go on it was crazy, it was way more out of control then what is going on today. I will say the motors caught for the most part have been pretty close to legal, these were ALL taken at BIG events, racers knew not to show with big motors at these venues. I also know FIRST hand of multiple 1349 motors running in 2012. The majority of the motors with illegal components have not been checked and thats what is coming. USLC knows that once you get  away from Charlotte there are alot of big motors.  This is NOT a rumor, I have seen invoices for $6000 to $7000.00 for 1349 complete rebuilds, yes rebuilds. I will not go into personal history on anyone, again this site is not to discredit anyone or sling mud. I have had  many disagreements with a couple builders over the sealed program, they are still good engine builders and they are in business to make money, no big deal. We disagree, but that does not make them bad people or bad engine builders. Anyone can call me anytime! 

[IraceLegends77]

backstretchwall,

I have no idea who you are but your spot on. I was here for it all. The only thing that no can tell me is WHY it cost so much for a 1980"s motor cycle engine. It's not like there is a ton of technology in these motors. Maybe Yamaha is holding us hostage with the prices. I know that I have a guy locally that can rebuild a 1200 for $1200 to $1800 if there isn't a lot of machine work involved and they last for 40 races. I do know the reason that they cut the 1200 motor back to 165 psi is because you could make a 1200 run with a 1250. So it makes me want to run a 1200 that has some compression and take my chances right now.

[Grape Competition Develop]

you guys werent here in late 2000 when 600 racing hinted at making everybody purchase a sealed engine to continue racing.  So at the end of the day, what good comes of this?  Is us legends going to suspend 100's of racers who buy parts?  I know car counts are higher than ever (insert sarcasm) so apparently running off paying customers is a solid business model.

i've been an employee of us legends in two different facets, one as independent contractor building engines, and the other as running the parts and distribution here in texas.  It kills me to see this program so mismanaged, as i've been invovled since late 96.  It all stems from a car that was HALF engineered, and when i say that, i mean that the cars were developed 20 years ago and nobody ever took the time to see what sort of problems arise with an oiling system when you put a motorcycle engine in a car sideways.  Now, there are lots of engine builders i don't care for, but the fact that these engines blow the sides out of them is not magic, nor is it ANY of the engine builders faults.  With bad engineering, why on earth would you want your business to bear the brunt of all frustrations with an engine being used in a manner it was not engineered to operate........let the small shops like me handle the bad press, shrink the business back down, sell parts, as uslegends is the best place for me to buy fj/xj parts, and let that business make money again.

cut the seals off, put 25 lbs on the 1250, check bore, build a key to check cam lobes and be done with it.........problem solved.  Sit back and collect money while order takers sell bearings, rings and timing chains....

[knoxracing]

Grape,
That was a good post, it would once again come down to the lack of tech officials with proper training and proper tools. Thats really been the problem with every engine program we have had to date.