Need some help. "Butchering" a Legends Car.

[PHA281]

I say "Butchering" because some "hard core" Legends guy's may consider it so. (I've caught flak for it in 1v1 in person conversations..)


I've made it known here and there, I plan on using either a modified "stock" engine, or a different engine all together and adding a power adder. (GSXR, ZX14, Hyabusa come to mind) If I decide to use another engine what will I have to change? Engine mounts? Transmission mounts? Gear? Anything your aware of?


Since right off the word go, I plan on tearing it down for paint & upgrades ("possible" engine change).

What do you think with your experience in working on them, I would be better off starting with? A running car? A Rolling (with body) Chassis? A bare (no body) Rolling Chassis? I've got a full two car garage I'm working on turning into a shop, specifically for working on the car. I've got the room to store parts, body, etc etc..

[JGRacing]

You probably need to decide on using the Yamaha 1200 or 1250, or using a different bike motor before buying anything.  No point in buying more than a roller if you want to go with a different motor.  For a motor other than the Yamaha, you will need to worry about engine mounts, driveshaft adapter, shifter, etc.  If you want to get it up and going more quickly, I would go with the Yamaha (still can upgrade it since not limited by INEX rules) so that you do not have to worry about all of the changes the  car will need.  If you have room, you may want to run a little bracing from the main cage down to the front clip to make it a little stronger (assuming there is room).  If you are going to do hill climbs on dirt or gravel, I wonder if a 3rd link with a rubber bushing (again if there is room) would help.  Keep in mind if you go too crazy with extra horsepower, you might start breaking parts like axles and driveshafts that are not designed for it.     

[Gimpster]

 Head on over to the dwarf car forums on the internet... Talk to them boyz 'bout what to do. They run different engines etc.. and most likely have the answers you be looking for

~ G ~

[PHA281]

You probably need to decide on using the Yamaha 1200 or 1250, or using a different bike motor before buying anything.  No point in buying more than a roller if you want to go with a different motor. 

My thought was that if I buy a running car, I can regain some of my $ or buy other parts by selling what I don't need. Feasible? Maybe, maybe not?

For a motor other than the Yamaha, you will need to worry about engine mounts, driveshaft adapter, shifter, etc.  If you want to get it up and going more quickly, I would go with the Yamaha (still can upgrade it since not limited by INEX rules) so that you do not have to worry about all of the changes the  car will need.

Thanks for the heads up!

The Yamaha hasn't been ruled out by me yet.. I want to look into the ability to mod it. What's out there, how much power can it make etc etc.. Where as a GSXR and the other popular sport bikes, parts and such are everywhere and proven to make big #s.  A turbo is a big "want" of mine!
[/quote]

If you have room, you may want to run a little bracing from the main cage down to the front clip to make it a little stronger (assuming there is room).  If you are going to do hill climbs on dirt or gravel, I wonder if a 3rd link with a rubber bushing (again if there is room) would help. 

Extra bracing will be added where needed (or thought to be needed). I'll be looking into what I can do with the rear to help it out. I've honestly not examined one in person enough to  make a call on it. Is there room for a Possible Watt's link? Panhard bar? Who knows.. (I don't, yet...) I plan on going to the local track (Wall Stadium) this season and seeing if anyone will let me get in there and take a peek at what I can (possibly) do.

Keep in mind if you go too crazy with extra horsepower, you might start breaking parts like axles and driveshafts that are not designed for it.     

Someone out there, somewhere.... has to make axles that can handle the power. Driveshafts? Plenty of places out there make those nice and strong!

[PHA281]

Head on over to the dwarf car forums on the internet... Talk to them boyz 'bout what to do. They run different engines etc.. and most likely have the answers you be looking for

~ G ~

I'm a member over there as well... I peek around and if/when I go with a different motor, they will be a good source. Thanks for the tip though..

[VMS Motorsports]

Anybody can make anything, just depends on the dough you want to spend.
Definately agree on the axles, you should get those custom made otherwise they will break off often doing what you're doing.
There are 1349 kits for the FJ1200, and guys do put turbos and NOS on them for drag bikes. Everything is possible.
I also agree on a down tube or some sort of brace for the front clip. They work fine for what we use them for, but would want to strengthen it as much as possible for what you want to do.
In my opinion, you should look for a chassis without a VIN, they come relatively cheap. Alot of guys will buy a new chassis instead of  fixing a bent one, and transfer the VIN. Since you'll be modifying it and not needing to pass INEX inspection, who cares if it's bent? You'll probably end up chopping it up and adding to it anyway.
Buying a car and parting it out is hard, mainly because of shipping costs associated with the big ticket items.

[PHA281]

Anybody can make anything, just depends on the dough you want to spend.
Definately agree on the axles, you should get those custom made otherwise they will break off often doing what you're doing.

Thank you for your informative answer. There is a driveshaft place my old boss dealt with here in NJ that builds custom driveshafts to anything you need maybe he can help me out? (MrDriveshaft, Farmingdale, NJ)

There are 1349 kits for the FJ1200, and guys do put turbos and NOS on them for drag bikes. Everything is possible.

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this kit, could be exactly what I'm looking for! I'll research it and see what I can dig up. Thanks a million!

I also agree on a down tube or some sort of brace for the front clip. They work fine for what we use them for, but would want to strengthen it as much as possible for what you want to do.

Thanks. That's definitely something I'm going to look into.

In my opinion, you should look for a chassis without a VIN, they come relatively cheap. Alot of guys will buy a new chassis instead of  fixing a bent one, and transfer the VIN. Since you'll be modifying it and not needing to pass INEX inspection, who cares if it's bent? You'll probably end up chopping it up and adding to it anyway.

Sweet deal! Thanks for that tip. Someone had mentioned elsewhere about only buying one with a vin plate for proof it's not stolen property. But I guess that kinda goes out the window if people are swapping them anyway..  A slightly bent chassis may be cheaper for me to get!

Buying a car and parting it out is hard, mainly because of shipping costs associated with the big ticket items.

Yea I hear ya on that. I've shipped car parts all over the world and sometimes ya lose your ass on the shipping...

[justfreaky]

Hi Adam,

Gonna kind of chime in with what all has been said so far. As most know, I am not a legends car guy... Both my cars are dwarfs. I am building my cars along the lines of the legends cars because I think that it is a good compromise between something like what your plans are, and the SCCA rules that I have to meet. A used legends chassis (without a vin #) should meet yor requirements as you don't need to meet INEX specs. Plenty of them out there. I see them on eBay and advertised on some of the other sites for a reasonable price. I think Jeff has a frame for sale right now.

If you are looking for something to start out with, then you could buy a complete car or roller. That way you have what you need to get a good start. Driveshaft adapters are available through places like Hawk Machine. I got mine from a guy on DCR that I've dealt with as I have been picking up parts to build my cars. Plenty of places you can get a driveshaft built. Axles, rearends, etc... Lots of options. Perhaps a quickchange would be a good option for your requirements.

Bracing on the chassis should not be a major problem. I think that can be figured out fairly easily. As Gimpster pointed out, there are things like springs or biscuits on the upper link . I have both that I can choose from. Suspension points can be refigured for both front and rear. Not rocket science. Engine upgrades are available for damn near anything.

I've asked you to email or message me if you have questions. I see all your posts both here and on DCR. I give you the best advice I can. Do with it what you will. Offer is still there to help you out if I can.

Steve

[PHA281]

Hi Adam,

Gonna kind of chime in with what all has been said so far. As most know, I am not a legends car guy... Both my cars are dwarfs. I am building my cars along the lines of the legends cars because I think that it is a good compromise between something like what your plans are, and the SCCA rules that I have to meet. A used legends chassis (without a vin #) should meet yor requirements as you don't need to meet INEX specs. Plenty of them out there. I see them on eBay and advertised on some of the other sites for a reasonable price. I think Jeff has a frame for sale right now.

If you are looking for something to start out with, then you could buy a complete car or roller. That way you have what you need to get a good start. Driveshaft adapters are available through places like Hawk Machine. I got mine from a guy on DCR that I've dealt with as I have been picking up parts to build my cars. Plenty of places you can get a driveshaft built. Axles, rearends, etc... Lots of options. Perhaps a quickchange would be a good option for your requirements.

Bracing on the chassis should not be a major problem. I think that can be figured out fairly easily. As Gimpster pointed out, there are things like springs or biscuits on the upper link . I have both that I can choose from. Suspension points can be refigured for both front and rear. Not rocket science. Engine upgrades are available for damn near anything.

I've asked you to email or message me if you have questions. I see all your posts both here and on DCR. I give you the best advice I can. Do with it what you will. Offer is still there to help you out if I can.

Steve

Thanks Steve,

You've been a great help so far. Since starting this thread, I've found a running car on Racing junk (new site to me) fairly cheap.. I'm trying to pool together some funds and see if I can make a decent offer.

$'s tight at the moment, but now that the wife is back to work we'll have some play $ again soon!

[justfreaky]

Understand the money situation... I think we are all in the same boat there! I have been researching, and building, my projects for well over 12 years. Building from the ground up is great if you want the expeience (my thing) or have lots of time and money (not my thing. lol!).  Complete car, or roller, gets you all the major components at a reasonable cost. Building from a pile of tubing = Hope you have a ton of money or time. lol! Adapting different engines... EASY! Building fast, high horsepower engines = expensive. What you are able to do yourself can save you money in the longrun but not time and research.

Steve

[Schmitt20]

I know a guy with a bare chasis and has a vin for $800. The body style is a sedan.

[justfreaky]

Thanks Brandon! He is looking for a roller, or chassis, to use for SCCA hill climbs. Will not have to meet INEX rules; But will have to meet requirements for whatever class he has to run in. I think he will be money ahead to buy a roller or complete car.

Steve

[PHA281]

I know a guy with a bare chasis and has a vin for $800. The body style is a sedan.

Kick a$$! Can you PM or email me some details? Location? What's included on it? Straight or bent? Not that it matters really, but pics of it?

I know you said Sedan, but does it matter whether it's a Ford or Chevy body? I intend on using a Ford (maybe body clip positions are different?) and can't tell from the USLC site whether or not the chassis differ from one style to the other.. Can a Coupe body be used on a Sedan Chassis? It doesn't really matter honestly, just curious really..



 NJ03Mach1 at yahoo.com is my email, look forward to a reply!

[thunder938]

All sedans are the same..flat top coupes the same..round top coupes the same

[Schmitt20]

I emailed you.