LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Engine Care & Tuning => Topic started by: VMS Motorsports on June 08, 2010, 02:18:08 pm
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I've always changed every 2-3 race nights, Amsoil 10w40 with a Fram PH8-A filter.
Decided to experiment this year. Still on the Amsoil 10w40, and switched to a WIX 51085 (Extra short).
Went the 1st 4 nights and sent the oil in for testing (4 nights on the oil, changed the filter after 2 and added a quart).
Oil came back in great condition with the exception of a higher than normal lead content, which could be attributed to the engine not being fully broken in yet.
Going 6 nights on the oil and filter this time...I'll let you know how it goes.
What does everyone else do?
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I use Amsoil 20W-50 and change the oil and filter every 3-4 races and I try to use the WIX 51515r filters but I also have the regular 51515 (ordering mistake) and the Fram PH-8 and one motorcraft something that was given to me when I got he car. Since I am new I can't tell you how well this works but I came up with that after talking to many of the other drivers in our series. Some used non-synthetic and changed oil every race, some used synthetic and changed it every two (which I thought was alot). But the fast guys (and some slow ones) are changing oil 3-4 times. I never thought to ask if they change the filter more frequently than the oil?
I would be interested to know if many folks out there change their filters more frequently than their oil?
Gerad
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Previously I used a take apart oil filter that I could pull every week to look at (still did not save me from blowing up last year :)) This year I am going to use the Hank Scott side mount setup with a K&N filter and was planning on changing the filter every 3 races after it is broken in. Glad Jim did this experiment. Cannot imagine that I am the only person who has wondered if the synthetic would last beyond a few races. At $10+ a quart it would be nice to stretch it a little further without risking the motor.
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I figure since we are building the engines in house now , it'll be a good test of the oil and of our engines. 6 shows could take a while if it doesnt stop raining though
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When to change the oil...
I base my oil changes off of many variables.
The first and foremost important variable is the operating temp of the oil. Now, to get the actual operating temp of the oil you must pick-up the oil temp remotely from the engine so the radiant heat from the air cooled engine is not giving you false readings. It is also dependant on the oil you are using and the ability for it to work in our extreme application.
I personally and recommend to my customers that use my oil cooling system that they can go 6-8 oval races between oil changes. I use Valvoline VR1 20w-50 racing oil. I use a Wix 51069 oil filter and two oil coolers.
My oil cooling system runs between 220-240* in the heat of the summer asphalt oval track racing. I have several guys that use my oil coolers system because it has been proven over the years to control heat and they don't run an oil gauge to “save weight”.
For my roadracing program we change the oil 2-3 times a year. Once over the winter before the first race, somewhere halfway through the season and then maybe on more time right before the World Finals, but since the oil never get above 200* the oil stays fresh for a long time. Even when the oil is drained the color still looks good and it is not burned up.
Now, if a car gets the oil up into the 260* range, the oil must be changed no matter how many races. The oil gets burned at 260* and above and it is obvious when the oil gets there it just keeps on climbing and will not cool down.
I do not change the filter unless I am, changing the oil; the automotive filter we use is big enough that we shouldn't really have to change it at all. It is at least two times bigger than the bike filter is.
I cannot answer about dirt racing, but if it was me, I would use the same criteria.
My recommendation would be to monitor actual oil temps and change the oil accordingly.
And as one of my customers tells me all of the time..."oil is cheap, I change it more often just because it makes me feel better..." The inside of his engines don't look any different than mine...
Randy - RPM
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I run the 2 cooler setup also. I run GTX20x50 and change it after 2 nights of racing or prac. I have never in 4 years had an oil problem. The oil comes out clean and no smell. I maybe could go longer , but its cheaper than the motor..
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We just run a single cooler (Setrab 920) in the dirt and haven't gotten the oil temp over 180 yet, but havent gotten any really heavy tracks yet either, we're either rained out or dry-slick this year. Also not in California on hot asphalt either, but we did have a couple 90 degree race days.
Randy knows his stuff with these motors, thats for sure, he's helped my program alot this off-season with alot of phone and email time and some head work.
Hopefully we get some races in and see how it goes!
If anyone wants more info than you'll ever need, I can email a copy of the report. File is too big, it wouldn't let me attatch it here
Jim
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^ I've hit the 220-250* range this year a few times.
At the beginning of the year i planned on going 3 races max on an oil change but now am going 4-5 races an oil change. Amsoil 10w40
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Wow Ethan...was that after the switch to the 3.73? What are you running for oil/cooler?
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Before the 3.73(haven't run it yet) and amsoil 10w40, not sure on the cooler...will have to check on that.
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Hi Randy,
Can you post a picture of the oil cooler setup you are using? Just wondering what everyone is doing different. My oil temps were over 280 last year every race on dirt.
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My oil Temps are way above 300 degrees on Asphalt. All the other guys I race with say thats normal for us?? :-\
I'm not sure what to think? But my oil still does not smell burnt after 3-4 races.
Gerad
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Hi Randy,
Can you post a picture of the oil cooler setup you are using? Just wondering what everyone is doing different. My oil temps were over 280 last year every race on dirt.
I will get some pictures taken of the layout & coolers I use and post them.
Randy
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What are you high temp guys running for fuel? Higher octane will raise the temp's...
I just have a setrab 920 on each car and we never hit 200, havent even turned the fans on this year.
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I run 93 Octane Sunoco....nothing fancy.
I need to check which cooler I have, I think it's a setrab? Black, alittle more than an inch think, doea feel like aluminum.
Gerad
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I just ran 93 pump gas, usually from Shell down the street with some Lucas top end lubricant. The carbs are setted per the Redline kit instructions and the plugs did not look lean.
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I will get some pictures taken of the layout & coolers I use and post them.
Randy
Since my camera has decided it did not like me anymore, I guess it has left me. I can't find it anywhere and my wife said she hasn't seen it either.
I will be getting a new one shortly and I will post then.
Randy
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I change my oil every 3 meetings (approx 100 miles with practice), and the oil filter (now I know where to get them from) every time. As Thunder938 has stated it is cheaper than the motor.
For the record, I have got a Hank Scott Oil Cooled XJR1200. Not sure on the temps of the oil, but car is on song at the moment, so something is happy. We run 99 Octane pump gas (higher octane in the UK, but cooler track temps). I use a Fram filter and Castrol Power 1 Racing Oil which is fully synthetic 10w40.
I too think I can go longer between oil / filter changes....but I don't want to take risk of blowing a motor and thinking "I wish I'd changed that oil or changed that filter last night!!!"
Chris
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I run the Alysin Oil and the new Hank Scott Oil filter system and change oil and filter every 6 races. My motor builder said that when he changes the oil it looks and tests like new yet.
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Jim,
Did you ever get your results from checking your oil after 6 races between oil changes?
Gerad
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I ran it 8 nights, but have not sent in the sample yet, its in the container, but I forgot about it until you brought it back up.
I'll get it sent out today
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Cool, let us know what you find out!!
Gerad
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Amsoil 20w-50. I changed oil once a month. Ran 3 to 5 races a week. Never seen any abnormal clutch wear or debris in the oil. Valve shim clearance stayed in spec. 93 octane fuel. 3 pass oil cooler. Let it idle with a fan in front of the grill until valve cover was cool to the touch after each race (heat or feature). Pulled maintainance on air filters after every race is about all. That 1250 had 4 seasons on it and pumpsd 180 psi when I sold it. We never see the hot temps they do down south, here in North Dakota. Only hot month is July. The engine seen 2 more seasons after I sold it, before it was spent.... That was a gooder !
----- Gimpster -----