LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Engine Care & Tuning => Topic started by: cody90 on November 15, 2009, 07:37:28 pm
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Can somebody tell me what the oil temp and oil pressure readings should be we where thinking about adding guages so i need to now what i should look for on them
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Oil temp as low as possible.
Oil pressure as high as possible, although don't get scared when you make a turn at speed and find you have no oil pressure because the oil in the pan flowed away from the pick-up
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Thanks that helps a little can u tell me any baseline numbers to go along with that
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I would not add any guages. Oil temp, will scare you and if you have a coller and fan it is what it is. Oil PSI, will drop in the turns. I run on pavement and have no time to look at the guages. These motor run with little problems. If your oil psi is low you will know it, there will be hole in the case. Over last off season I even removed the tach. less lbs. The only thing I run and I think we need is the gear Indicator
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I'm putting in a new dash this winter and the only gauge I'm putting in is temp. I have never looked at anything else. EVER
Scott
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What they said...
You have enough to worry about and spend your money on, gauges look cool, but you won't look at them much, and the big question...if your temp gauge hits 300, are you going to pull off?
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Very good point Jim ! I don't run an oil temp gauge. ( Too scary especially after a 40 lapper ) I do run oil pressure, I feel that is very important especially at start up. Oil pressure will definitely vary. After fresh oil my pressure is about 25 to 30 at 2000 rpm's but when real hot my pressure will drop to about 10 when coming off the track. I also ran a seperate switch for my tach and gauges that way I can check my tattle tale without having to turn on the ign. or the fuel pump
Brett
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yea you guys are probably write but when you go through 3 motors in less then 6 months you try and look for everything to just pervent it from happening again
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I have oil, temp, and tach in my car. Granted I usually do not look at them while under green, but I like having the information during cautions, after the race, and if I am trying to sort out an issue. I could live without the tach, but like having the other information so that I know if I am having a serious problem. Oil temp also lets me know if the car is warmed up before I pull on the track. Then again, with all of this I still threw a rod after 5 races on a motor.
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If you're going through 3 motors a season you have problems that having a couple hundred dollars worth of gauges isn't going to detect
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I think this depends more on the motors though. In talking with our local builder he thinks that these motors are oinly good for one maybe two rebuilds. There is too much strain on the internals to handle multiple rebuilds.
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3 motors in 6 months! Thats bad ,most guys I run with have 45, 50 plus races with no problem. Granted a motor can go at any time, but to have 3 go there is a problem.
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After the second one I would have found a new engine builder.
Rods, pistons, and cranks should be replaced every other rebuild if you want to be safe.
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Well my my first motor was a 1250 and it was sitting for two years before we bought it so we kind of didnt know what we had.And my second motor was a used 1200 that we bought smoked like crazy for two races until it blow up and then we got it rebuilt by a guy in boca rato and it took 5 months to get rebuilt which was allso pretty crazy and that only got one race on it. And Yes the oil lines where hooked up write.So my question here would probably how do you guys get that many races out of a motor?
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I'd replace your oil cooler before you do anything. Then have it built, replace anything that looks suspect. Don't cheap out. Saving $500 by not replacing rods isn't cheap when you have a hole in your case tomorrow
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Take the money you are going to spend on gauges, and use it towards a good engine. Get an engine REBUILT, not just repaired, by a guy who does the Legends engines, they know what they need to replace. The cost is sure intimidating, but will be worth it. Don't just piece old junk together, that will continue to cost you money. Like is mentioned before, rods and other items need to be replaced to get a soild piece. It sure is no fun blowing up all thime and the stuff they use to put out fires makes a mess of the car (been there done that !)
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Yea thats what i thoght i did it got a complete rebuild wessco pistons steal sleaves the hole nine yards we even added several fans just to try and reduce the temp but i still ended up in the infield getting put out by a fire exstiquser
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Did you replace your oil cooler...or at least back flush it REALLY well after the previous one blew?
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Yea we made sure it was COMPLETLY clean
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What broke on the rebuilt engine? Are you using a good oil? and enough of it?
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I have scene new / fresh motors blow up after one race, even from the biggest name builder ( no I want say ). But to 3 go quick there is something wrong. I last a fresh 1250 after 8 races, but I came to a 80 mph sudden stop and no clutch and twisted the crank. 8 laps later BOOM broke the crank. Was it a bad motor? was is the driver? Mayby a bit of both?.....Driver mistake.Ya first year in the car...that made the wife happy..LOL
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I don't know yet all i now is that the pistons stiking out the side. I looked at the recipt on the rebuilt and it only said Resize and Assemle connecting rods i don't think he even charged us for new ones so that might be the problem but i'm not an engineer so i don't know.
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Thus the answer to your question. No new rods, probably used the same wrist pins and rod bolts too.
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You really need to find out what broke on these 3 motors. Did a rod break in half? if so why? did it spin a bearing? or did it break from fatigue.
These engines are going through alot considering what there in. Having said that they are pretty tuff so something generally has to be wrong in the way it's setup or the car it's in. If you blew up 3 and they blew up the same way it's more than likely something your doing or not doing. Cleaning every line and oil cooler is VERY important, on dry sump motors (they have a ton of lines ,cooler, and a pump) we would run clean parts cleaner through them in both directions, and take the lines off and clean every part separate. The oil you use in these motors HAS to be looked at closely and changed often, If your running an obgerg or some other cleanable oil filter STOP! they are 40 micron filters (you may find finer elements) and you don't have the filter surface you have with a spin on.
I've blown a few motors in my day, 2 this past summer so I've learned from mistakes (1 of them I will take full responsablity for).
The best thing to do is to spend as much as you can to achieve reliability then power, clean everything that touches it and treat it well good with some good oil and a good filter. Also you need some good air filters. VMS motorsports will hook you up at a great price.
Good Luck and I hope this helps
Chris
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I don't know yet all i now is that the pistons stiking out the side. I looked at the recipt on the rebuilt and it only said Resize and Assemle connecting rods i don't think he even charged us for new ones so that might be the problem but i'm not an engineer so i don't know.
What about the other ones, what was the failure on those?
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My first engine was the original engine i bought with my car and it was a 1250 it just had to many races on it.Then we bought a used 1200 as a temerary solution because we didnt have enough money to get the 1250 rebuilt. So then we ran that for a couple races and it smoked like crazy so we got it rebult by a guy in boca rato and one practice and half a race latter it blow up so im pretty sure there was nothing in common.And for all three engines i was using K&N $14 oil fillters and Royal Purple XPR oil
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What do you mean by "blow up"? If you're last 2 engines this season had holes in the cases, thats an indicator that it may not be the engines problem.
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no only my last engine had a hole in the side the other two just blow up probably the cause of to much races on them remember the first 2 where used and this one only had like 50 laps on it
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Second request...what do you mean by "blow up"?
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This is Cody's dad, Don.
We bought the car from Jorrard Richardson here in Florida. We where told the motor had no more than ten races races on it.
Third race it started blowing oil oyr the breather, soon after it lost power.
Took it to Kenny in Orlando he took it apart, half the piston in cyclider three was gone pretty much. Kenney said he had never seen anything like it and he has building Legend motors for years.
So we bought a 1200 from Zack Harris, JA racing in OIrlando after recieving assurances from Josh at JA racing it was a good motor and would last Cody the summer. Got the motor in went to Citrus to practice, check the motor out first lap going into the corner it smoked as bad or worse than Richardson's motor. Called Josh at JA racing in Orlado basically got thr run around.
Asked for reference's in the pits who to take the motor to get it rebuilt. SCR Speedshop in Boca Roton is who was recommended to us.
George told us three weeks to rebuild the motor. Almost five months later it final gets done after numerious phone calls to George .
Get the motor back, Russ Thompson rebuilds the carbs take it to Citrus for a Tour Series race, soon as we put a load on the motor it blows oil out the valve covers, head bolts. Turns out he used the old valve cover when he rebuilt the motor, head bolts where not tightened. Fix the oil leaks but to late to make the race really. We had the wrong gear anyway for a 1200.
Bought a brand new 3.30 gear for the next race which was at Auburndale, practice went fine, pre final went fine, during the final going down the back straight the motor just let lose. Smoke and small amount of fire.
Russ Thompson said at the time it thru a rod.
Got the car home, took the exhaust off and sure enough piston from cyclinder 3 was sticking out the side of the case right where the case half’s meet.
Less than 40 laps total on this motor and it’s junk.
According to the parts receipt the rods, rod bolts where not replaced by SRC Automotive.
SRC says to bring the motor to them they will check it out and if it was their fault they will fix it. This from a company that took five months to rebuild the motor when they said it would only take three weeks, this from a company that put an old valve cover gasket on a motor they just had rebuilt. Sure I believe them.
Cody worked all summer to come up with half the money to get the motor rebuilt.
I’m more pissed about that than anything when a grown man has to take advantage of a kid to make $$ that pretty low.
Moral of the Story stay clear of Zack Harris
SRC automotive in Boca Raton.
Don Johnson 1-352-622-1796
airbrushmag@gmail.com
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So both motors had an issue with the #3 cylinder. In episode #1, where "half the piston in cyclider three was gone", was it a breakage issue, or a heat issue that caused the piston failure?
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Kenny from Kendrick Perforamace who took the motors about said they broke a big chunck of the piston just went missing
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We droped the motor off today with george he was very nice and meet use more then half way on the turnpike he's going to tear down the motor and do what's right
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I see your for sale on racing junk, cody90, what thats it you done or doing doing else
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yea where just selling it all and starting all over from scratch
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cody make sure you run good oil and change it too I run amsoil 20w50 motorcycle oil and it goes between 3 to 5 races really like it.
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No Vern!!!!
No talking about oil allowed! ;D