LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => General => Topic started by: AKRACER on June 28, 2013, 11:49:02 am
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ok foaks be honest what would you like to see uslci/inex to to make the car better/safer/faster/ect. i would love to know what thoughts are out there for improving the racing of the cars we all drive and enjoy spending time working on.
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If I start in on this topic, you will have to make quite a few trips to the grocery store for bacon, because we gunna be cooking for a while. The end result is comparable to mixing Cheerios with an egg beater for the simple fact that even if USLC approved the suggestions..SMI would shoot it down in the end. I'm better off to stay hiding behind the couch till mom calms down.
~Gimpster~
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I wish there was somthing that could be done about the high cost's of motors and the rebuilds.
Secondly, It would be nice to allow to use the improved ball bearing (aftermarket) bell crank in the shifter assy.
Eric
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I second the high costs of engines....
Doesn't a 602 crate motor cost a little over 3,000? Yet our motors are nearly double that.....
I think numbers would fly through the roof if there were an affordable engine for these.....(my wife would be happier too)
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Yup.. dump the engine seals and improve tech. One thing I mandated while reviewing the Australian Legends dirt car racing rules, I made sure to exclude the seals. They have no issues with high costs of engines or cheating within. If USLC would dump the sealed rules and require the engine parts to be purchased through them, it just might off-set the high minimum parts order amount for dealers for their gain in shipping fees and increase dealer parts inventories across the nation. As it is with the minimum, the dealers are nearly financially strapped. Besides, who wants to send their engine into USLC for rebuild with their track record for their rebuilds to grenade ? Let others across the nation rebuild engines that HAVE a boring bar that isn't shot.... heck, someone should go to USLC and show them how to finish a double flare on brake lines while the chassis are being built (you don't leave the line at the first invert bubble without finishing it).. they need to step up the program in a lot of areas
~G~
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no seals and bearing bell crank
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I will let you all debate the sealed motors. Been there done that and done that and done that and done that.
My comment on improvements- When Yamaha stopped producing the 1200 we should have moved on, modifying the 1250 for water is no good and is not going to happen. These motors are over priced and wrong for the application.
Next- Improve the nerf bar system so it actually does something, protect this open wheel car from a lot of the issues we are having.
Next give us a tire that DOES NOT require cutting, it has to last 6 races and we would have to run one size only (same tire all four corners).
Next- USLC should not have a shipping dept that ships parts to customers, lol sorry guys!
Lastly- Train tech officials so they have the proper tools and the proper training. Provide them with a hot line to call, this would settle so many things.
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Looks like we need to get Dennis down to the mother ship to run it. I think he is spot on and the motor is the biggest problem with this series.
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I also like Dennis’s suggestions. Im currious as to how to solve the cut tire problem. What would a tire that didnt have to be cut consist of? Harder or softer?
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motors yes we need something better....one price motor..
dwarf tires [hosier] would be great......
put inex back into it.. inexpendsive racing... stop trying to get people pissed off about everything lets go back to enjoyment racing not wallet racing...
joe
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Engine costs and safety are always an issue.
The rib of Legends Cars (Dwarf Cars) have moved way beyond the current technology for Legends. Fuel injected, water cooled, 4 wheel disc brakes, quick change rear ends, etc... If you think the cost of an engine is expensive; Toss in the cost of whatever current hot engine; builds (or rebuilds); $1,600+ for a quick change rear end; Several sets of gears; 4 Wilwood calipers; brake pads (still can become very pricey). Tire rules vary from club to club or organization. Costs escalate very quickly. I must give INEX creadit for, at least , keeping the rules somewhat consistent. I don't agree with all the timing and discissions. Still a good series though. Good investments as far as racing goes.
Steve
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Hypothetically, what would be a decent, economical engine alternative for these? I know little to nothing about other engine options. Just curious.
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INEX/USLC likes to push their sealed engine program. In all respects, that does make it a "spec" engine, and a "spec" car.
All the current major manufactures can be found in Dwarf Cars. Water cooled is the current trend. Fuel injected engines are also very popular.
The upside to the old air cooled engine is simplicity. You have to remember that none of these engines were ever intended for this purpose or weight.
Although, I will say that my 1981 Yamaha XS 1100 does weigh about 1100 pounds with full dress. Not much of the plastic that you find in todays bikes.
GSXR and CBR's are fairly common. Most are using a Honda car radiator mounted in the rear and fans.
Steve
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We used C&R radiators in my A.R.T Chassis, Steve. Still have a few Gixxers (600,750 and a 1000cc) as well as some CBR (954rr and a 1000rr) complete motors with electrical stashed away.
LOL the engine platform I need, I don't have...
The Winters quick change rear end isn't a bad idea to include in this lil parts dream. Better axles and cheaper gear sets as well as the obvious, easy to swap gears. Now that would be a good way to upgrade to rear discs !! Swap to an entire Winters rear assembly. Housings are made in the Toyota config... As long as we are at it, might as well want to have them open the window on the shock rule a little too. I guess they are letting some of the fellers get away with some shock tricks and they pass tech down in Charl0tte. So I don't see why we can't use clicker shocks on dirt. Apology Dennis but I have to disagree on the same size tire all the way around. Gotta have Stagger with these dirt tires for fine tuning per surface. Low cost class though, that is how they want to keep it.. uintil it comes to their POS motors haha
~Gimp~
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I like the old adjustable Carerra shocks. Perhaps not one of the best adjustables; But better than no adjustability.
Steve
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Throw a curve ball into the whole Legends Dirt Division... Adopt an entire chassis for this parts dream. Lets see them add a Mod Lite chassis to their menu and see what sells better, it or the L-Mod
~G~
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INEX did add the dirt mod. Not quite like the current mod lites; Kind of an old throwback to the early years of dirt mods. I like the looks and some of the technology compared to the current spec chassis. 2 diffferent types of tracks and technology needed. That becomes a big issue when trying to do a spec car on multiple types of tracks (pavement, road course cars and dirt).
Steve
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I'm not a fan of the Dirt Mod (L Mod) whatever they wanna call that morphodite. I just rolled my eyes when our tech man said "But Gimp, they have a liquid cooled head" while I was at a track a few weeks ago. For that kind of coin, I would go back to upright Mini Sprints where ya have something worth while. Ugly wingless attempt at a sprint is all they are, not impressed at all with the chassis
~G~
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Not all that crazy about it myself. I just agree with some of the adjustability that the current Legends Car is not allowed.
As far as the water cooled head (Water cooled conversion); It was not the way to go as far as I was concerned. You don't see much on that old topic anymore.
I guess what I would like most to see on the Legends is more adjustabilty in the suspension. Dwarfs are a bit more adjustable than the Legends.
The non-adjustable shocks require buying more shocks with different rates. I have a couple dozen of the old Carerra's and several sets of springs. Simple matter of slapping another spring/shock on the car if a spring or shock rate change is needed. 5 minutes. Not everyone can afford several sets of shocks and springs.
I also like the idea of a quick change rear end. I don't care much for the cost though. I guess that if you put things in perspective, quick change gear sets are a lot cheaper than buying several pumpkins and ring and pinion gears. So far, I am not willing to put out the money for a quick change.
What becomes a rough issue with a wish, list is trying to run a spec class car.
Steve
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Pretty much man, pretty much.
Wanda's wish list was to get our Legend up and going so I could have some fun before I kick the bucket. Now days her wish list is for me to bury it in the back acreage and forget the division ever existed as well as damning me if I help anyone . True colors of the locals showed lately so if I beat you in this turtle race to finish our chassis up, Steve, we will travel elsewhere to race, not here for sure. We are not after any national recognition or points. Just run a few more races yet. Reminds me, I should throw these new Wilwoods on the chassis since they are just collecting dust in the open boxes
~G~
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Pretty much man, pretty much.
Wanda's wish list was to get our Legend up and going so I could have some fun before I kick the bucket. Now days her wish list is for me to bury it in the back acreage and forget the division ever existed as well as damning me if I help anyone . True colors of the locals showed lately so if I beat you in this turtle race to finish our chassis up, Steve, we will travel elsewhere to race, not here for sure. We are not after any national recognition or points. Just run a few more races yet. Reminds me, I should throw these new Wilwoods on the chassis since they are just collecting dust in the open boxes
~G~
LOL! We shall see. I did see on your facebook page that you have been slowly working on it though.
I am going out to the welding shop tomorrow to see where they are at on my chassis. I give them projects to complete rather than give them everything at once. They are a new shop, and this is a pretty large project. I don't want them (or me) to get overwhelmed. They are currently workin on roof bars and rear clip. Doors and body tabs are next. Rear end mounting will be very soon as well. They have made plenty of space available in their shop, as they know it is going to take some time. They are sponsoring me for a fair portion of the work. So I won't complain as long as I see progress every week. We had a slight issue over this when I got back from my trip. I think all is on track now.
Steve
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Haven't been updating what we been doing over on Facebook because the locals don't need to know lately. This isn't the tread for it but since it is about parts dream... Parts are here for the 1200's bottom end. need to finish that up. I am making it legal with all the gears this time, Started building a chassis jig after a discussion with Mike at CMG when I ordered my brakes and other parts from him. Building it off of his ideas. Also looking for a decent tubing bender. If they take most of my guts and give me a bag, I will just build chassis parts and do that kind of work. Stop dreaming about racing again and finish the CJ-7, RX-7 and the lowrider... fade away basically (called getting old my friend)
~G~
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We ain't dead yet. :o
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We ain't dead yet. :o
Not dead yet.. haha (Guess I could share this story on that topic, my friend)
Been healin, finally getting out and about since March, after 3 years of being down from fighting this colon cancer. A friend I helped when my shop was open with their Mini Sprints and Legends racing for his daughter, asked if I would help with their modified. Also, Joe had house issues so I took his Legend into my garage at home (all my shop equipment is there since closing shop in 2010) and perked that chassis up as well as repaired his 1250, so he could race. It had one cylinder down to 40 lbs compression from a leaking head gasket, lucky if the rest pumped 80 lbs. Bouncing back and forth between the Mods and Legends Cars at Dacotah Speedway on race nights was OK. Wanda liked it because I finally was able to have some fun for a change. Extent of my fun before that, was going to Menards for little items to do around the house as I could. LOL those walks through the store alone would leave me down for a week thereafter. Strength and stamina weren't built back up. Finally weened off the ondansetron to stop throwing up resulting from radiation treatments and addition of mebondazole, honey and cinnemon.. I was able to get out and about more and more. Finally progress on healing. Few set-ups later, Joe's Legend was out of my garage and stable for racing with his driving style. Rolled my illegal Allison chassis that I purchased from Sweringer in 2008 into the garage to strip and find a legal chassis for. Called everyone, even Dennis but nobody had a bubble coupe chassis. LRC had the old house car that Mike Patrick told me to call them for but I found they had stacked a bunch of Legends on top of each other after taking over LRC from him, videoed taking a run at the pile with a Dodge Omni and posting it on Facebook. The bubble coupe was one of them... Called Warren Ropp to see what he had. He didn't have one but said "Gimp, get a chassis together and race this Knoxville race during the big WoO Sprint car show down here". Wanda was excited about that one. Kind of an emotional pick me up after being down for 3 years. Without chassis, I am real low on funds from being down, I started stripping this bubble coupe that I have. Removed the left rear fender and seen the updated support on it.. stepped back and scratched my head "Hmm, Allison chassis ??" I thought to myself and drilled the cage to measure it... it is a legal chassis. Wanda was seriously pumped with joy so we picked up a transponder, set of dirt tires and a bunch more parts since we didn't have to buy a chassis. She wanted the ole Gimpster to make the dream come true of running Knoxville. Had the 1200 running in the garage one day after that (I had rebuilt it in 2009) and it started smoking out the breather and locked up. Baffled, I called Hank Scott to bump heads and see his thoughts on what happened. Fresh motor shouldn't have done that. He didn't have nuthin to get me back up and going that I can afford on my recent income. Called Ken Joyce and asked him what he thought.. after catching up on the latest goings on with him, he said he would send me a motor to run the race with. Meanwhile, as always, was supporting racers acorss the nation, a local legends racer picked up on a conversation I was having with Joe after he had a wreck at Dacotah, about rebuilding his steering sector. Asked if I would look at their sector. That Saturday I hopped on the Bagger (Harley) and rode up to the Underwood race to hook up with Shane Williams and check out Zac Lutz's sector. It just needed to be gone through with a shim kit. While watching the Legends feature from the opening on the outside of the track where the cars enter, while standing next to our tech man, a rock just under the size of a baseball kicked up out of the pack and hit me in the left side. I left on the Harley and rode home. Went in the two days later because of internal bleeding that started passing. Ruptured the weak part of my colon. Pretty much ended my wanting to race again. Called Ken and Warren, told Ken not to send the motor up to me and told Warren we won't be making the show. Warren said they prolly won't be doing the Knoxville show after this year. Meanwhile, after the Underwood show, I posted on a group that one of the 17 year old kids should push in his clutch when he spins all the time because he is making the Legends look like idiots. Zac Lutz chimed in calling me an ***hole and that the 17 year old kid has accomplished more than I have in my life, and so forth and so on. I told them I probably have double the plaques and trophies than the two of them have started races in their lifes.. verbal battle of witt ensued .. I ended up telling him his mama should have thrown him away and kept the afterbirth.. wiped him off the sheets instead and so forth (he couldn't top that). LOL that is when the death threats started. I told him not to come around the pits that I am in or he might end up crippled. You know this day and age... child services stepped in the next day (someone turned the arguement with the minor in). Steven Kuntz private messaging me with threats, Shane Williams messaged me saying that he had talked to our dealer and they were going to get me banned from INEX. I rode down to my dealer and he knew nothing about what was said or going on. Shane fell quiet to me. Joe had posted defending me but turned around and apologized to the group for stepping in (thanks for the help on my car, right ? lol) Cameron Soggee messaged me telling me I was the problem and he wouldn't do nothing to Zac in the group (for telling a kid to push his clutch in and defending myself ?)
And speaking of death threats Steve.. there are 3 outstanding death threats from the situation that they were going to collect on me 2 weeks ago. LMAO for telling a kid to push in his clutch when he spins all the time so him and Zac stop destroying other racers cars and the class could put on a good show.
Welcome to the 'Dakota Legends Racing Family' in less than a month you go from hero to zero !! It's all good, we will finish this chassis and race elsewhere in the future when I'm healed. Don't want no part of the local drama. (apology for the long post)..
~The Gimpster~
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Hi Gimp,
I am glad you are doing better. That is always good news! Rhonda and I have been praying for your health for a few years now.
Whatever all the ruckuss was; I hope it settles down and people move on. Love to banter with you!!!
Lets get this thread back on track though.
I like the 4 wheel disc brake idea. I do think Gimpster is right on a rotor update as well. I would like to see a bit more adjustability in the rear suspension.
Back on the brake issue; I would like to see dual master cylinders. Those are my thoughts anyway.
Steve
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As Dennis mentioned, an improved nerf system would be sweet. Kind of a fine line looking at it for design if they were improved, if the wheels have better coverage, the aggression will raise but from a safety standpoint an improvement is in order. Ever seen a wrecked car with a bigger guy in it and he can't get out of the car because both running boards are pinning the doors closed ? In a way there is no happy medium. More adjustability in the rear Steve, my thought is the ability to adjust the panhard bar up and down. Easily done with a bolt on part to the upper mount.
~G~
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The panhard bar would be a good adjustment. Also the top link.
Just sayin'... It's a parts dream. ;)
Steve
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Adjustable upper link.. make these things lift the front wheels coming off the corner.
Imagine the minimal rolling resistance of a quick change with zero drag disc brakes on the rear...
~G~
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Chalk up the new Mono Ball front suspension from Peter D Motorsports onto the parts dream list for the Legends Cars (decent spindles)
~G~
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I have both LEGENDS and DWARF CARS
For the DWARF CARS I take a LEGEND roller and put a 1000 cc water cooled motor (Stock) and it is a blast on Asphalt and Dirt, I have the same motor right out of a bike that I paid $2,500.00 for which is complete and have been running on the 3rd year without any issues,(just change the oil every 4-5 races) It runs around 185 degrees even in 100 degree weather.
I have been in the Legend and Dwarf car racing since mid 90's and the Legend has always been a problem with either motors, parts, or other things that run a lot of people out.
I keep a few legends to run in some big races since there is usually a lot of cars to compete with (BIG MONEY RACES).
Basically in a nutshell, it is a lot of less money and a lot more fun to run the DWARFS.
JMO
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Not to change the subject, I agree the wish list is cool, the dwarf thing is so crazy. I think it must depend where you live. Here they are out of control, you either spend 30K or you suck. There are so many chassis and motors and various parts allowed it has killed them. While we put together what we think would be a cool list and we get upset about changes this post make me think we are in a series with uniform rules weather we agree on them or not. My 2 cents and I want my change!
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That is why my dwarf cars are being built along the legends rules.
A new factory built dwarf is running around 20k. CRAZY!
Steve
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You can spend that kind of money to go fishin' too, but there ain't no trophy girls !
~Gimp~
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i would love to see new rear brakes and maybe a quick change rearend i dont get the tire rule that you have to buy the wheels with inex sticker to be light weight thats just lame and help make it a monolpoly.
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I believe the wheel rule was to keep out the aftermarket off-set rims.
As for more parts that would be sweet, nerf bars that bolt to the outside edges of the rear bumper and angle out a little then turn inwards right behind the rear wheel and mount to the frame as well as nerfs clamped to the front running board upright angling out and bent back inwards right behind the rear of the front tires then clamping to the frame are needed. Keep down some of the wheel hopping that destroys these cars.
~G~
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If I recall correctly, there is already a wheel offset rule in place. I think the weight rule comes more into play. They try to limit that as well.
Thinking that that is one of those things they don't tech to closely either.
Steve