LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => General => Topic started by: DARK AGE 53 on October 14, 2007, 05:10:42 pm
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This topic has been discussed some in Steve's " Safety " thread http://www.legendsracer.com/index.php/topic,157.0.html , I thought it might be a good idea just to have a thread devoted to this topic.
At the moment we don't have a system on the car, the racing season is over here but before next season starts the car will have a Fire Suppression System in it.
If you have a system post some info and pics of it, if you don't know how to post pics let me know and I'll post them for you. I wish I would have given this topic more thought before the season here ended, I know there's a few car here that have a fire system and I would have looked at them....if the racing season is still going on in your area take a look around and get some info plus take pics of there system.
Later,
Al
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Google Race Car Fire Suppression System.
Here is a system pic I found; simple, clean set up. Also installation instructions link.
http://www.purplepatchmotorsports.com/installation.htm
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Steve, Thanks for the pic/link, I'm hoping someone here has a system and is willing to share there info about it. The system I'm looking at is FireBottleRacing RC500 from http://www.firebottleracing.com/The%20Facts.htm , here's there install http://www.firebottleracing.com/install.htm .
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I'm curious as to what size system is best?
Protection vs Price.
Is one system better than another?
Would like to hear everyones oppinion.
Steve
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Fire bottle placed in rear compartment
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Good find Steve, that's one area I've been giving some thought about placing the unit....replaced all of the fuel lines today with braided fuel line.
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Hey Al,
Just buying my fuel lines now. Have brake lines, and will get oil lines after I get the engine installed.
I like the trunk area because there is lots of room there.
Steve
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Here is another one:
Mounted in front of seat
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here is a few pics
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here is the other
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hundo24,
Nice setup!
Steve
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I wish I could take credit , but I bought it this way ;D
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Here is another one:
Mounted in front of seat
I have a question....is that the brake reservoir on the dash?
As a former Tech inspector...I'd be inclined to ask for that to be moved out of the driver's compartment, one less thing to heat up and scalled the driver in an accident.
Just my opinion.
Brian
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Hey Brian,
Yes it is. Some guys in Dwarf Cars still use the reverse mount set up. Not as popular as they once were. In part, due to the exact reason you pointed out.
Steve
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Glad to know that isnt a Legends car, As a current INEX inspector I couldn't allow it to compete....too dangerous as well as illegal. Mounting the bottle in front of the seat would be ok, but I would prefer it to be mounted in the trunk area in case it should come loose....one less loose projectile in the cockpit during an accident. Smaller drivers whose seats lay back somewhat might have room behind the seat, but that makes servicing difficult at best. I strongly suggest the trunk area if possible. If it must be in the cockpit, use a solid, bolted mount versus a latch type that might come loose on impact.
When it comes to fire systems, if you think you cant afford one, compare the price to one day in a burn unit......its a no-brainer. I can provide a contact to a driver who wishes he had used one and can tell you the cost of an extended stay in the burn unit, he is still paying for his 10 years later and will be for the rest of his life.
Louie
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Was just trying to show possible places to mount the fire bottle. The ones I have posted are from Dwarf and Legends Cars. I do agree the best mounting point seem to be the trunk area. Also think there might be some small gain in weight distribution.
Steve
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One thing to remember....For Halon to work it takes the oxygen away from the fire.
This also means it does the same thing to the driver!
Just a little knowledge I retained from years gone by. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. So is a good race car!
Brian
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Halon does make it a challenge to breath, but then again, it's a fairly open cockpit and if you mount a discharge nozzle under the dash, it's distributed at your feet more than your face. Besides, fire eats the oxygen as well, so either will make breathing hard.
I don't know if Halon is heavier or light than air, and that might play a factor in breathing. Of course if you flip the car then discharge the system, and the stuff is heavier, you now have a face full of it. I do know that there are alternatives to halon, but they all have some kind of danger listed.
My system has three nozzles. One under the dash, one on the firewall (top, middle), and one in the rear. Top of the rear, middle of the rear firewall. Bottle between the battery and fuel cell. What I don't know is what it contains, so I guess I'll have to remove it and see. Besides, the gauge is mounted facing down. No way to see the charge state unless I crawl under the car, and I'm a pretty chubby feller, so would have to jack that car up a few feet to get under it. Also the label is nowhere I can get to.
Seems like a good setup all in all though. I know that some would rather use a hand held extinguisher than a fire system for weight as well as control, but I think I'll take the weight hit. What the heck, it's already installed and functional. I've got enough work to do this winter.
Mike.
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Hey Mike,
I wouldn't mind taking a look at your Halon system when you bring the car over to work on the scales. I have one to install in my car as I only have a regular extinguisher that is mounted on the drive shaft tunnel right next to my arm. When I got in a wreck last year my elbow went smashing off it. I agree with those who say to get that stuff out of the driver area. The nozzel placement would be great to see. If the system I have only has 2 nozzles now does anyone know if you can add a 3rd and how?
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Yep. Easy to install a third nozzle. Just need a compression fitting "T" for 1/4" (I think) brass or copper tubing. Could use brass, copper, or Aluminum tubing. We'll get that setup, no problem.
Mike
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Post up some pics when you mount your system.
Would like to see what you decide.
Thanks,
Steve
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I think most of the systems have a maximum number of nozzles, depending on size. Too many nozzles might empty the bottle too fast to knock the fire down. With only two nozzles, I would put them both in the driver compartment.
John
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So you wouldn't put on on the firewall pointed at the engine and the other in the rear pointed on the fuel cell?
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What I have always read is that they should be in the driver's compartment first. If the car catches fire, the first priority should be knocking down any flames around the driver until you can get out or the track crew makes it to the car. With a 10 lb. system, you will have more than two nozzles and can afford to run them to the engine compartment and fuel cell area, but with a 5 lb. bottle you will probably only have enough capacity for the drive compartment. I'd have at least two nozzles with the driver.
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Isn't Halon in the process of being phased out due to EPA concerns, kind of like r12 was for r134a?
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/fire/qa.html#qA2
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As a firefighter I would not recommend the halon system. Halon like posted in previous posts eats the oxygen up. This generally works best in an enclosed area. In the cockpit that would not work very well. I would recommend the newer foam systems. That will do a better job at putting the fire out and protect the driver better.
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I am really learning a lot in this thread. Thanks guys.
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As a firefighter I would not recommend the halon system. Halon like posted in previous posts eats the oxygen up. This generally works best in an enclosed area. In the cockpit that would not work very well. I would recommend the newer foam systems. That will do a better job at putting the fire out and protect the driver better.
I'll likely leave the bottle I've got in mine as is for now, but I'm sure one day I'll have to change the system due to environmental regulations. I notice that a few of the replacements for Halon are only minimally friendlier to the environment, so I'm not in a hurry to replace it right now. Once I've got all the rest of my expenses covered, and a new engine fund well under way, I'll start looking seriously.
How messy is the cleanup after the foam system unloads?
Out of curiosity Legend77, how many times have you fought a fire with Halon in the mix?
Thanks,
Mike
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To be honest, I'm not too concerned about fire eating oxygen in the cab since it's a really open design. Fire also eats oxygen at an impressive rate, so I'm going to hope on getting the heck out of there as fast as possible. Any fire system will be welcome if I need one, but I certainly see Legend77's point.
RB...
If you've already purchased the Halon bottle, you can take a look at mine when we bring it over to see if that suits your setup. If you haven't purchased it yet... Maybe an alternative like Legend77 was saying?
I should ask Eric what he thinks too. As a firefighter, he may some ideas as alternatives as well. Going to have to get him to sign up on this site...
Oh Eric...!
(He's my baby brother. If he joins up, you'll have to rib him!)
Mike ;D
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anyone know where i can find replacement nozzles and fittings? i was removing the old tubing and i plan to re route the fire system to a new location, i need to find replacement fittings, cant find them anywhere!
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Thanks Mike. I got this system from Frank. He had it sitting around and I told him about the issue I was having with just having the extinguisher mounted on the tunner right at my elbow.
I do want to take a look at your system. I see in your pics that the nozzles point to the motor. Do you have one in the cabin? All the pics I see show them pointing at motor or fuel cell. Does anyone have pics of one with the nozzles in the cab?
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Hey Ricky Bobby!
I'll take a photo of the nozzle in the cab as soon as I take the body off again. (Still have to paint the car and clean up inside fiberglass work) The nozzle is under the dash, so once the body is off, there'll be a great shot with all kinds of light.
Mike
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MegaMan,
Sorry I haven't been on this site for awhile.
In the fire service we almost never deal with halon. The only places you see these systems are in rooms that hold expensive computers and other expensive equipment. They are used because the halon will not damage the equipment and there is little clean up. Now don't get me wrong it is better having a halon system in the car then nothing. It still should be pretty effective in the fuel cell area due to it being enclosed. I actually have a halon system in my car. If you are looking into purchasing a new system I would recommend the foam system because it should protect the driver better, put the fire out, and it is very inexpensive to refill the system. Once my father accidentally tripped our halon system and it cost $500 to refill. Yes it will be a mess to clean up but it would be worth it in the long run if there was a fire. This is the link to the foam systems: http://www.firecharger.com/
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Legend77,
Thanks for the link, I've added it to the reference and link list.
Thanks again,
Mike
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Has anyone used the foam system linked above? Sounds like a decent product and hard to argue with the price.