LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
BANDOLEROS => Setup & Handling => Topic started by: dbradley on October 09, 2012, 10:30:23 am
-
Hey guys,
I am coming from karting into bandolers. I am wondering what you all typically do at the track for adjustments. Say the track gets tighter as the night goes on..(typical here in the northeast).. Do you do air pressure, a turn on the rear spring? How about if you are loose?
Thanks for the learning experience in advance!!
Darin
-
43 views and nobody has any advice??? I know how to make these changes in karts, just need a little guidance on your thought process with the Bandolero.
-
I viewed but didn't answer casue like you we just finished our first year out of karts so I m not sure either. We loosened and tightend with cross adjustments in the left rear. Heard that you set everything and then adjust that spring. Then I also heard that you should only do it in the RR so not really sure. Is you look under carrying the LF thread you can see we have other issues also I am trying to work out LOL.
-
Oh and if you have not figured it out, Bandos seem to be very top secret. I even reached out to a couple of the bigger teams for help and non of them relied back to me. We are a small team that pretty muched stayed at our home track so we where no competition to them.
-
Thanks Billy13,
It's very unfortunate that information isn't shared more..I am used to an abundance of info exchange in karts...in fact would struggle weeding through it all...lol...
racing at this level should be about giving your child a very stable competitive car. One that isn't getting torn up. We should be instilling confidence, pleasure and sportsmanship in our kids, right?
How responsive is the car to LR spring changes? Did you do very small adjustments?
-
Sorry that I don't have a lot of info for you guys. I try to collect what info people will share with me.... Pretty slim. Guess they think that this is rocket science or a government top secret project. From what I can figure, what throws these cars off from karts is the rear springs. Not sure why they chose to go with the go kart type front and springs on the back. Spring rate changes and air pressure adjustments will likely make the biggest difference in your handling. Cross weight seems to be the key.
Steve
-
Keep in mind that, according to the national points, only 270 Bandolero's touched a race track this year.
That's not alot of people with information to share, versus the tens of thousands of karts raced
-
I would do adjustments from 1/2 - 1 turn depending on how loose he was. But again our rear springs seem to be wrong so we need to work on that first.
-
There are a lot of people who have moved up to Legends Cars that started in Bando and are still not willing to share. WHY?
Had one a few weeks ago that said he would share info with me and then gave me excuses about waiting until the end of the year to share his info.
There are some who have shared info and asked me not to post it. They are willing to let me share that info in PM's or emails. I am willing to share whatever info I have to any of our members.
Steve
-
Once we got our car where we wanted it we would change car by tire pressure on rear of car been out of for a year but if need help still remember old numbers and stuff
-
Once we got our car where we wanted it we would change car by tire pressure on rear of car been out of for a year but if need help still remember old numbers and stuff
I would love any information that you have...I am a numbers/chassis dynamics sponge!! With you numbers can you describe the track you ran?
-
OK, being a karter myself for 30 years before I put my youngest into Bando bandits, (then Legend, now late model)I'll try to help. Bando's are way different from karts---front end like a kart, rear end closer to late model, so somewhere in the middle, the car gets confused, and you have to treat each end differently. It would be helpful if we knew size track, banking, oval or road course, restricted or not, etc. Also, a Bando gets very sensitive to changes ONCE YOU GET THE CAR PROPERLY BALANCED. What I mean is that a 1/4 turn on each spanner can change cross 1% on a balanced car, but it make take a full turn on each spanner to get 1% if the car is not balanced. You have to get the car to that "teter totter" point for adustments to really make a difference at the track. Having said that, you have to start with proper cross, stagger, psi, ride heights (didn't have to deal with these in karts) rear end squared, rear end offset, lower a arm lead and/or lag, caster, camber, ackerman and front wheel track. about the most left side wieght you can legally get is 52% and nose weight is critical (I like 44% nose for 1/4 mile ovals and smaller, and r/c's; 48% works well on 3/8 mile when you run restrictor plates. Post this info and it will be easier to help. BUT, you'll find that getting a Bando fast is not as easy as it was in karts, and once you do, you prolly will keep that hard earned and expensive info to yourself too.
Now, to anwer your basic question. IF the car is balanced, you can tighten the car by going down on the LR spanner 1/4 turn and up on the RR a 1/4. Opposite to loosen car. Move both, because if you don't, you can get into chain issues and rear axle squareness issues. Remember, these axles travel up and down, AS WELL AS FORE AND AFT since it is a four link design. ANgles are everything!!!! You can also add 2 lbs psi to LR to tighten car up off corner, opposite to free it up off corner.
If problem is entering corner, work at front; if exiting corner, work at rear; center of corner, everything is open for adustment, but normally cross, caster or camber. Again, RIDE HEIGHTS ARE KEY!!!! As with karting, blueprinting and flowing carbs and dyno tuning engine is MASSIVE IMPORTANT!!! And Tire program is still king!! No soaking, but must religiously clean after each race and keep in controlled environment. Tires must be cut, but different cuts for different type racing (roadcourse, oval, restrictor plate, etc.)
Most importantly, NEVER listen to 600 racing when it comes to a Bando set-up. Sorry, but nobody in that shop has ever seriously raced one of these cars at different tracks, so they don't have any REAL TIME experience. THey are helpful, just not "on top of the game" so to speak.
Welcome to racing in Area 51
Mike Hudson
Alpha Carbs
-
Mike,
First, thanks so much for your input. Alot to digest in your post. New Hampshire Motor Speedway is starting a new series at the track for legends/Bandoleros. They use a .25 mile flat "oval" that is in turns 1&2. Car will be unrestricted.
Can you recommend the engine work / tire guru??
-
we are running 1/4 mile banked track. Can you recommend ride heights? Again most of my info has come from 600, they told me as low as I could get front, then gave me a height for RR and set LR t where ever to get cross set. Mike I can email you my setup sheet to look at if you would like.
-
Yes, send me your setup, I'll gladly take a look. I can tell you now, that you don't set the LR to get cross where you want it. LF, RF and LR heights must be correct, and the RR is the one that you use to set the cross, unless you're running a roadcourse, then the LR and RR become active in setting the cross.
Mike
-
Our scale numbers were 186 rf 158 left front like 198 lr 207 rr axle 167/8 back from rear of frame spacers on front spindle 11 top 1 or 2 bottom two spacer inside two spacers outside to offset front still rolls thru hoop ride height were like 2 1/4 lf 2 1/2 lr almost 2 3/4 rf close to 3 rear hein on front spindle left side towards back r side toward front gap to move heim on a arm would set front rods to a arm at like 71/2 to get front scale numbers once u find where yous is supposed to be measure rods to middle of heim keep me that way wanted axle at minimum distance off frame it's in rule book left side measurement off frame take bearings boil in transmission fluid til rust orange and use tri flow every week foaming tri flow spacer are opposite on other side only put left side put springs around brake caliper to stop drag want car to roll as freely as possible I used to run about 39-41 percent cross gears are different for motor and carbs I always tried to run on a 15 hub and when I got tires cut I wanted tires to be as small as possible no more than 551/2 if possible bigger tires slow car and places in nc to get motor and carb dynoed to sinc carb and motor well worth money take clutch apart every week and grease needle bearings and slides on clutch shoes caster and camber u can get an heat thermometer to check heat on tires want even alway across tire that will tell u your caster and camber but I usually ran like 3 l and 5-6 right well there it is
-
Thanks so much for the information all.it is much appreciated...this is great food for thought. Does anyone have any good recommendations for tire cutting?
Thanks
Darin
-
I really hate to see this thread die off..We are off to such a great start..we have been working with USLC to get my young son all fitted with his devices and undies.. For all that may be interested HANS is changing the sport model. They have cut pricing. Got my sons HANS for $495!! He takes a 13" seat, will get the one with the HANS recess and the halo. He is going to need about 2" of padding un der his butt.
Has any body got any helpful advice on elevating his feet and bringing the steering column back? He is going to have to have the pedals mounted in front of the steering rack. It looks like no problem save for the throttle linkage tab.
In karts I used a Footbox. It was made for small tikes in Tag karts. But it fit right into his oval kart. It really helped him with leg fatigue..
Thanks
Darin
-
2 things, you can move the seat mount bar if you need too. I cut mine and moved it back to get my son off the steering wheel. As for tire cutter, I use a guy in Charolette. He will pick them up from INEX cut them and take them back to INEX so they can ship them. if you want his number message me and I will get it to you. Don't like putting #'s on forum boards
-
For all that may be interested HANS is changing the sport model. They have cut pricing. Got my sons HANS for $495!!
That is because HANS sold out to Simpson.
They bought up Safety Solutions years ago and so now they have cornered the market on H&N restraint system.
Good, bad or indifferent...I guess we will have to see.
Randy - RPM
-
I believe it's discontinued, not changed.
They don't own Necksgen...$599 complete set up, fully adjustable, in adult and junior sizes.
Shipped free from VMS Motorsports
-
When my son started racing we made hollow like blocks out of diamond plate to prop feet on and reach pedale mine were in middle of bar on frame so had to cut notch to fit they were shaped like upside down u but flat on top left tabs out each side and pop riveted to floor pan.
-
When my son started racing we made hollow like blocks out of diamond plate to prop feet on and reach pedale mine were in middle of bar on frame so had to cut notch to fit they were shaped like upside down u but flat on top left tabs out each side and pop riveted to floor pan.
Great idea. 600 racing tells me that they now have a foot riser kit as well as a steering column extension. VMS have you seen these ort had any experience with them...the diamond plate is a great idea. . DCpainting, did you use the long pedals or build the box to the short ones?
thanks
Darin
-
I have no working knowledge of Bando's, unfortunately they don't race them anywhere around here
-
we tried long throw pedals and then ended up making our own you can get the medal from any metal shop or tractor supply and weld together and then get them where your driver wants them
-
I use our local steel recycling center to but most of my steel and aluminum. Only pay the going rate for what they pay per pound.
Steve
-
This whole pedal manufacturing/mounting problem has me a bit anxious...If someone could take a peak at http://shop.nkrpedals.com/main.sc.
If I mount it elevated from the floor and put a set of pedals on it, He will be using what he is used too. It is not difficult to change the mounting point of the brake master cylinder and this comes with the throttle assembly. Tell me what you think?
Darin
-
if you plan on running for or with inex for points you need to be guided by the rule book.
23. PEDALS: Competitors may change the location and length of gas & brake pedals within the cockpit as long as they remain mounted from the top bar as delivered from U.S. Legend Cars International. Pedals may not be cut down or lightened in any way. Adding to the original pedals is permitted. Removing material from the original pedals is not permitted.
-
Thanks Rob.. I didn't know that...will modify a jacked up less safe version...
-
Darin, if you haven't already, I would go on website and print off rule book. There is quite a bit to take in.. Both my son and I are getting very excited to race this car! I really hope it takes off around here!
Chad
-
Hey Chad,
We are going to have fun, learn a heck of a lot!!
I have never been this anxious about getting through a winter!
Darin
-
Yes I agree!! We are really looking forward to the new challenge! Its going to be a long winter..lol
-
Sorry to say this...
But RULES are the first thing you want to read.
As with the Legends Cars, the Bandolero Cars are also a spec class racer.
Because of the sealed engines and limited suspension, you will be very limited in what you can and can not do.
Steve
-
First thing I did was get a copy of the rules.. I have been through them several times and there is quite a bit to take in!
Chad
-
I know my older sons late model rules are 3 1 sided pages
-
Only 3 pages? LOL!!!
Bando general rules cover 11 pages.
:D
Steve