LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Setup and Handling => Topic started by: Toyotaracer on September 09, 2013, 09:13:39 pm
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I have noticed this year (2013) that there is a big difference from track to track INEX inspectors regarding the tread depth rule - inspectors have almost turned their back to this rule. Why? The rule seems very clear to me.
Tread Depth - When the top of the wear-bar indicator appears at two spots in a row on the tire (side-by-side or in the same groove - i.e. outside groove) or the tread depth is 2/32” or less on any two (2) points in the tread (measured from the bottom of the groove, not at the top of the wear-bar) (“tread” will be defined as 6” across the tire, to be measured from the center 3” both ways), that tire will be confiscated, destroyed or drilled by the technical inspector.
I have been around Legends racing since 2007 and I have never seen a tire confiscated, destroyed or drilled by the technical inspector. I realize this is a tough decision for an INEX inspector, but they are asked to enforce to the rules.
I am sincerely interested in feedback regarding why this rule is so difficult to enforce .... or....how it can be more clear.
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I could not agree more, they are allowing totally illegal tires to be run. I believe that because the Fed tires are being cut way down to start with, the techs get tired of hearing about buying tires every three races.
I have begged USLC to hold tech seminars in various regions during the winter, educate and give techs the confidence and tools needed to do this properly, nothing has taken place so far. Most techs have no formal training from INEX to really know what, who, when and how to accept and deal with ongoing issues. I have a tech Lic. and I can tell you I have seen it all in different locations.
My 2 cents has been spent!
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Couldn't agree more with ya Dennis. (on the tech training) BTW if someone put a nickle into you, you still have 3 cents left LOL
~Gimpster~
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I'm not a big fan of the depth rule..... Yeah some of the tires may be illegal per the rule, but they are fine to run, allow the racer to run the tire a LOT longer, and save the racer some money..... Isn't that a good thing?
I can understand frustration if you are not running them at way, and someone else is....there needs to be a level playing field.
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our tech guys here had abandoned the tread depth rule, they say that is no longer a rule, just wear bars..they do somewhat in force the wear bar rule..
joe
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Great input!
Just an idea - what about INEX add a pictire of an illegal (worn out) tire on their web site or within the Rules PDF file. That would be easy to refer to.
I would just like to add.... when rules are enforced on an equal basis more racers WILL show up because they feel the field of cars is more equal and they have the feeling their driving skill and chassis tuning plays a bigger role in how they finish. Racers will stay home if they feel the rules are not enforced - hurting car count and audience attendance.
Please keep comments coming!
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Toyotaracer....Couldn't agree with you more regarding enforcement of rules. Too bad some tracks just don't seem to figure that out. :)
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I agree with Slack11. I usually pick up the tires from the big teams that have 3-4 races out of them and then run them for 5-6 more to keep costs down. If the tire is safe to run what is the big deal with the wear indicators?
I think they need to find a way to keep tire costs down as well. There is no need to have to buy new tires as much as some teams do.
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its all about making money on tire volume sales..
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I am a dealer with customers of all means of finance. The entire problem is the tire being cut down to last 3 to 4 races max. The flip side would be to change tires and that would create other expensive problems involved in a race tire. In the beginning cutting was not allowed. Camber cutting is a nasty job but is quite lucrative if you develop a large customer base.(I do not cut tires). We have discussed this before and its a tough subject.
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I would like to see a slick. It would have to be a very hard slick that would last and be a REAL racing tire. We finally got a tire for dirt so why not get a tire that doesn't chunk wear out in two or three races. This series really needs to get back it core of be INEXspensive. Just my thought.
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Why don't we just get a tire that's meant for racing and be done with it. These fed are junk and you shouldn't have to spend a day braking in tires.
http://www.americanraceronline.com/Asphalt-Track/mini-asphalt.html (http://www.americanraceronline.com/Asphalt-Track/mini-asphalt.html)
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Very true... if they switched tires to another treaded we would be back to cutting them down to nothing again....
I haven't been in this series that long, but I don't understand why they have always had a treaded tire for racing? Why didn't they use a slick to start with for the asphalt? Was it to have a tire that could work on asphalt and dirt? Now, they don't need to do that with the introduction of the dirt only tire.
I agree.... Make em slicks, hard as a rock, and get the most life out of them as possible...
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600 approves all of the tires for racing in their series... the inex logo allows a racer to use these tires, thus having to be purchased threw 600.. ok now let the racers cut them to be faster.. the more rubber removed the cooler the tire runs and the faster the tire is..but now it will run about 3 to 4 races til the wear bar on the rt rear shows, selling more tires to be fast..most of the fast cars will use the tires in sets of at least 2 if not 4. just math..
joe
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A little feedback - INEX tested slicks on asphalt a couple of years ago - I think 2009. A few of the results were interesting. 1. The slicks made the Legends cars dangerously fast. ( A treaded street tire slowed the cars down.) 2. The asphalt slicks wore out just as fast or faster than the treaded, camber cut tire tire. 3. The asphalt tire bite so hard that it over stressed the rear chassis points.
Comment regarding break- in cycling - do a google searcg - camber cut tires. Click on CamberCutters. This tire cutter cuts a tires that is ver fast after 3 short heat cycles (6-8 laps each). There is allot of tire information on this site. This guy has taken tire cutting to a science and understands the Federal tire very well.
I enjoy reading your comments.
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It was cool back in the day when we were all on the same tire, you could bounce back and forth between asphalt and dirt without having extra sets of tires.
Those days are long gone. USLC gave us dirt racers a dirt racing tire, and the racing has improved greatly, not only has it made the car faster and easier to handle, it is safer as there are less one car spins (at least in my observation).
Since the line has been set between racing surfaces, I think the asphalt guys deserve a racing tire also. If extra gussets are necessary in the rear, then so be it, its in the name of safety. A 13" race tire will be cheaper than the Federal (well, until USLC puts their stamp on it), and there will be no need to send out for camber cutting.
Just my hillbilly dirt racer opinion
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they run dwarfs up my way..a lot of legends chassis with the hoosier tire, last at least 18 to 20 races, no issues.. I can not see how a race tire that has grip can be dangerous...but I must say we never tried them..the scca road course legends also use slicks I've been told..
joe
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When you say "dangerously fast" what exactly do you mean? How much quicker than the treaded tires were they? A couple of tenths, or was it seconds....
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I guess if you ran a sticky tire it would be dangerously fast, but if you keep the tire at or around 60 or above I think it would be just fine.
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Legends and Dwarf cars have been running slicks for a long time in SCCA and asphalt tracks. Road courses are extremely fast. Slicks give them the grip they need.
Some groups do run a duro reading. I, for one, would like to see a pavement tire instead of a generic tire. The DOT rules don't so much apply in this day and age. DOT tires come in many compounds anymore.
Steve
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Like I said just make it hard so it will last and that will take some speed out of it too. You don't have to go fast to have good racing. Maybe we should start putting a bug in USLC ear for what that's worth.
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Robin Pemberton, NASCAR vice president of competition. “As the sport’s sanctioning body, it is our responsibility to ensure there is a fair and level playing field for all of our competitors and this action today reflects our commitment to that.”
INEX and INEX officials ..make the right decision and enforce the Tread Depth Rule - give us a fair and level playing field. Sometimes the right decison is a tough decision.
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As far as the current tire I say no depth rule that way if you want to run one with the cords (belts) hanging out go ahead. These tires seem to get better the more you wear the tread off. They are not made for racing but I will not go down that path again.
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Robin Pemberton, NASCAR vice president of competition. “As the sport’s sanctioning body, it is our responsibility to ensure there is a fair and level playing field for all of our competitors and this action today reflects our commitment to that.”
INEX and INEX officials ..make the right decision and enforce the Tread Depth Rule - give us a fair and level playing field. Sometimes the right decison is a tough decision.
You are showing this as a quote. Is this a message you got from Mr. Pemberton?
Steve
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Steve,
That quote was from when Nascar threw Truex out of the Chase because Bowyer spun, not Legends related
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Sorry! Been a little busy lately. Am a few days behind on the news. Got your quote though.
So then my question; What does that have to do with this tire discussion?
Just asking. ???
Steve
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Sorry for my dry humor - the quote was an an example of how a sanctioning body (NASCAR) took charge; made a tough decision that tried to make the playing field level for all racers. I was suggestioning that INEX and INEX officials do the same thing with the current tire depth rule on the Federal tires i.e. enforcing the current tire rule equaling across the US.
I realize this thread has talked about three different topics:
1. a different tire of asphalt tires
2. changing the tire depth rule
3. enforceing the "current" tire depth rule
I am NOT suggesting a new tire is needed, only pointing out that the tire depth rule is not being enforced the same by INEX officials and at numerous INEX sanctioned events.
I enjoy reading your comments.
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I do get the humor. Topics do take there twists and turns. Pavement and dirt can generate many different thoughts and ideas. Many tracks, that I've heard of over the years, have there share of tech issues. I think tracks tend to tech what they deem important. Most don't have staff, tools, etc... to deal with every situation. At this point, there are dirt and pavement tires; Rather than the generic tire for both. Sometimes things happen slowley; But I have seen change happening.
Steve
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Great comment!
I was just going to add that this time of year we get invited to numerous tracks to participate in special, end of year high dollar races, but.........we ONLY go (and spend our sponsor dallors) on those tracks that have a strong technical inspections before, during and after the race - we allows finish better when we know the field of cars are policed and rules are enforced. I just wish more promoter/owners understood that - a good technical inspection will always produce a higher car count and more fans in the stands.
One more point - fans don't want to see one car dominate. They want to see side by side racing!
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We know that fans don't like to see one car win week after week. Sometimes, the reason for that is that the racer has done his or her homework and gotten the set up down.
Just sayin'. Could there be some cheating going on? Perhaps. Until there is some uniformity to tech, that question may never get answered.
Steve