LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Setup and Handling => Topic started by: Rfisher23 on March 31, 2013, 07:59:22 pm
-
I cant drive the car in hard enough, cause if i do the car pushes so bad, my friend said when i go thru the corners he can hear the tires squealing bad, and i literally have to muscle the car to get it to turn in the corners, so bad to where i can barely. Finish a 25 lap race, any suggestion on how to fix this, thanks guys
-
We all need more information before we can help you. Tell us track size and banking , asphalt or dirt, springs size at each corner of car, wheelbase both sides, scaling percentages especially cross, and tire pressures to start. Then there are many of us on this website that can assist you. :)
-
Rf castor+4
Rf camber -5.25
Lfcastor+1
Lf camber +3
Cross 46
Left 51.0
Rear 51.0
Pinion 5.0 down
Toed out lf 1/8
Rear shocks mounted inside on rear
Springs
225-275
185-200
Cut fed tires
-
Rear end is square
Wheelbase is a little bit longer on left side
The track is a quarter mile banked ovel i think maybe 3deg bank with tight corners
Im just getting started and im tired of getting laped lol :P
So any help will be wounderful thanks
-
If you let the car roll in without braking will it turn?
Or is it all started by the brakes dragging?
Randy - RPM
-
Looks to me like most of your numbers are in the ballpark except for the pinion angle. Never heard of anyone running than much down. I would recommend no more than 3° or more like 1.5° down. I would think Dennis and a few of the other guys will be on soon to give you further asisstance. I wouldn't think you should have any trouble with pushing with only 46% cross???
-
Would help if you posted what track(s) you run .
Castor and camber seem off as well as cross weight. Cross appears light.
No time today to check my notes. Sorry!
Driving style makes a difference also.
Be patient. The holiday has a lot of folks busy with family and friends.
Steve
-
I have tried letting the car rolling but if i do that i have to muscle the wheel and turn the car and i can feel the car pushing up the track, and i have to just slow way down to get the car thru the corners and turns 1 and 2 at concord its really bad pushing
-
Is the steering bound up?
Do you have the tie-rods under the steering arms at the spindle?
A common problem is people put them on the top when the car is jacked up as they look correct at the angle.
I have to ask...
Everything is good, no bent ball joints, shocks, radius rods, etc.
Randy - RPM
-
Your setup is pretty close.
Put a 250 in LF for spring. set pinion at 2 to 2.5 down.
What are you running for air pressure.
How is your front end setup. are lower control arms parallel? Have you checked bump steer. What spacers are in the front.
What are you running for ackerman. some run them all the way forward on the slots. some set left side all the way back and right side in the middle.
-
Left side air 16 right side air 26
Im not real firmiler with the ackermen deal
Or the slots on the front spindle?
-
By increasing the left front spring the car will push harder in the center. The geometry of the car is off along with your cross.
Call me we will fix your issue over the phone.
-
Ok dennis thanks will give you a call tomm...thanks
-
I would say your pinion angle is wayyyy off. You dOnt need near that much. I only run .5 to 1 degree. Springs are fairly close but I think that's too much split up front. As someone suggested, put a 250 up there. I'm not sure how you think a heavier LF would make it tighter Dennis? Where are your frame heights set??
-
Question? Will it cause my car to push by running 5degres pinion down, i know when jacking my car up in the rear, when the rear end drops my right rear spring is still so tight i have to use channel locks to run shock ring up or down!!
-
Yes. I would say your car is in a pretty bad bind. Often times people put more pinion angle in a car to get more forward bite. Technically speaking, more pinion angle will give you more forward bite but make the car more free on entry. However, I think you've gone beyond that and just put a huge bind in it. I only run about .5 to. 1 degree at most. Where are your frame heights?
-
3 5/8. Rf3 3/4
4 1/8. RR4 3/8
Toed out left 1/8
Pulled LF tie rod off last night and found it was a liitle bent, would that cause it to push any??
-
Bump steer and ackerman can make the car push as well. check over your front end make sure nothing else is bent.
Set control arms parallel reset your bump and ackerman.
-
A slightly bent tie rod won't make a huge difference. As stated above, it's a good idea to check bump steer. Though your toe might be set at 1/8 in the pits, it could be 1/2" toed in under load. Where is your Ackerman set? I'd say you have too much spring split up front and wayyyyy too much pinion angle in my opinion.
-
Thanks alot for help guys, not sure how to check bump steer, but the holes on the spindles, the left front is centered and the right front is pushed all the way to the front of the hole
And my left side upper and lower control arms are in line perfect, but my right front arms, the top arms is back about a inch more than the bottom arm
-
Ok. You've got more than enough Ackerman. If you don't have access to a bump steer gauge, find a digital level. Using shims and or washers, shim the tie rods until they're at the same angle as your lower control arms. This isn't near as accurate as a bump gauge but close enough. To check and make sure it's close, have one of your fat buddies stand on the front bumper and check toe again. As long as you're in the ball park of where you are when the car is at ride heights, you're good. It's a good rule of thumb to make the car bump out if anything at all. If it bumps in, it can make the car tight and darty. For sure bump up your LF spring to at least a 250 and put your pinion angle at 1 degree. I'm assuming the rear end is square?
-
Yes, rear end is square, ill check the bump tomm eve, where to you shim or put washers at on the tie rod to get it level?
And once i set the toe out and shim it and have someone stand on bumper the toe should still still stay the same when pressure on the front bumper?
-
That is correct. You put shims and washers between the heim joints of the tie rods and the steering arm of the spindle on the tire end of the tie rods, and between the heims and steering rack on the inside.
-
Finally got to race the car, the push is no where as bad, but now the car is a little loose as in when i come in and get off the gas and turn the car back end wants to kick out a little and then goes in to a small push, but coming off corner it feels great, lf spring 225 rf 275 will it help if i put 250 lf?
-
A 250 in the LF will help you turn a little better in the center but will affect the car the most on entry. Do you have a brake bias valve in your car? Being that these cars are such short wheel based, they are naturally free on entry. To a certain extent, it's something you just have to get used to. These cars are all about momentum. That being said, the car must turn good in the center. Often times you have to float the car into the corner and make sure you don't man handle it too much.
-
Ok gotcha thank, yeah i have i break bias in the car, its one of the all-star round knobs you turn, someone told me i could have had to much rear break, im guessing my break bias works eaither the front or rear? Its good coming off, its just gettin in its loose, maybe imdivig in to far and hard? I may try a 250 spring left front and see if thats better, i know my bump steer is not dead on i dont have a gauge yet ill check that, thanks alot
-
Until you sit down and do your bump steer, just have a couple fat buddies stand on the front bumper to lower the frame heights and check toe again. As for brake bias, I always encourage people to start with the rear brake turned off all the way. If it starts to feel tight under braking, add a turn towards the rear to free it up. To put more front brake in the car, turn the knob counter clockwise. More rear is clockwise. As I said before, I'd suggest starting with the knob turned all the way to the left.
-
Ok will do, thanks alot, when checking the bump steer, when i have some people stand on the front how much should the tires toe out??
-
Ideally pretty much none. If it toes out around a 1/16" or so, you're ok. The important thing is that it bumps out, not in. Even if it stays the exact same, that's fine, just don't let it bump in. If it bumps out 1/16", I'd set your toe at 1/16" out static (nobody pushing the front down). To get an idea of where you need to put shims, go to Home Depot and get a digital level that reads in degrees. If you're looking at the front of the car, try to get the tie rods to match the angle of the lower control arms. Try to put an even amount of spacers on the rack side and the spindle side. Although this isn't the preferred method, it will get you close.
-
I moved some spacers around, got the a arms same angel as steering rods now, actully dead on, and i set my toe at 3/16 and had a 300lbs man stand on the front end and the toe stayed the same and didnt move, is this kinda what i want?
-
I'd try to get it a little closer to 1/16" or 1/8", any excess toe is going to scrub off speed, but you are definately moving in the right direction
-
I agree with Jim on that. Ideally, I like to set toe at 1/16" and have the LF bump out a little bit. That way the car doesn't scrub much speed down the straight away. If yours stays the the same, you'll be ok at 1/8". Glad to see you're making progress!