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BANDOLEROS => General => Topic started by: 3nracing97 on July 21, 2008, 05:42:23 pm

Title: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on July 21, 2008, 05:42:23 pm
At least that is what I think it is.  We run on a 3/8 , 15* banked concrete track with a restrictor plate.  First night we ran the car we were geared too low so we were on the rev limiter but we took the chip out and the motor would bog down and miss in the center and comming off the corner.  This week we were geared better and didn't hit the rev limiter and ran good for a couple laps.  He set fast time in qualifying but in the heat he ran good for a couple laps and then it stared cutting out again.  He can let off the gas and feather it some and it seems to work fine but he really needs to be able to flat foot it all the way around to keep up.  I have made sure the vent was working and I put on a new fuel pump this week.  The first week we ran it the plugs read lean so we adjusted the valves. The motor doesn't smoke or anything.  I am going to take off the carb and clean it real good this week and might even take out the whole fuel system to make sure the lines are are clean and the are no obstructions in the fuel cell.

Anyone ever had this problem?  Any help would be greatly appreciated since I am about to be fired as crew chief from my driver!!
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: justfreaky on July 21, 2008, 07:11:51 pm
Hi Kevin,
 Cleaning the whole fuel system up may help. Have you checked to see that the carb is jetted properly? You adjusted the valves; How about the carb? Could the valve springs be getting weak? Just some random thoughts. Hopefully, someone here will have some better ideas for you. You can also check on Bobs 4 cycle, lots of info there.
http://karting.4cycle.com/

 Jacob really wouldn't fire dear ol' dad,  would he?  :)

 Hope that helps some,

Steve
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: Bando 9 on July 21, 2008, 09:30:22 pm
I had that happen to me u need to try running different gears in your sprocket and clutch that should help that's what helped me.

Chance 8)
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: DCK2683 on July 23, 2008, 11:27:28 pm
How do you have your fuel pump vaccum hose connected?  Is it conencted to the carb?  We had the same problem when we ran a 3/8ths high banked track with a restrictor as after a alp or two the car would miss in the turn.  We switched the fuel pump vaccum from the carb to the valve cover and plugged the carb connection.  This solved the issue.  The carb is not getting enough fuel when on the banked part of the track.
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on July 24, 2008, 09:23:50 pm
Thanks for all the help.  I cleaned out the fuel cell and that wasn't the problem.  I just took off the carb and it is dirty and it said it had 52 jets in it.  I looked at some info freaky sent me to from 600 and it said I need a  92 on #1 cylinder and a 98 on #2.  Now I have no clue which cylinder is 1 or 2.  I might have missread the jets but I was almost positive they said 52.  Now this is an older motor and it still has the old green seals.  Our track is letting us run it since there are only a couple cars for now but I am going to get it redone or buy a new one in as soonas I can afford it(or they make us!)   

DCK,  we do have it connected to the carb so your suggestion makes total sense.  I will definatly do that.  Is there anywhere that shows what line should go where on the fuel pump.  There is a good chance I have it hooked up wrong to begin with but it did run for a little while so it should be right.  I did check the plugs and they aren't white like they were the week before.

And yes I think he would fire me if he could,  there have been times that I messed something up on his kart and I think he would have beat me up if he was alot bigger!!  He does really good for the most part, he knows it is all about having fun but he is starting to develop a little fire in him to win, or at least be able to race for the win and when something breaks or he does a stupid move he gets pretty fired up about it.

Thanks again guys ya'll have been alot of help so far, 
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: DCK2683 on July 25, 2008, 12:23:44 am
There should be three hoses to your fuel pump, one from the fuel cell to the fuel pump, one from the fuel pump to the top of the carb, one from fuel pump (center hose) to the side or lower part of the carb on the right side.  The one in the middle that connects to the side of the carb is the vaccum hose, that is the one you want to connect to the valve cover. 

I would guess the jet is a 92 and was just hard to read, very unlikely someone would have it jetted as low as a 52.  The carbs come standard with a 94 and 98 jet.  These jets when run with a restrictor run very lean.  Most who run a restrictor run a 110 jet for both cylinders.  The black "screws" on the carb are for adjusting the fuel flow.  You should start with the screws 2 1/2 turns out.  One of the best ways to check to see if it is running lean or rich is to have your driver kill the engine right before he is slowing down to leave the track and then pull the plugs in the pit area, this will give you the most accurate readings.  If to lean turn the screws out a little, to rich turn them in a little.  Air flow and jetting are VERY critical when running a restrictor.  Make sure your air filter and air filter sock are clean.  As far as the cylinders, the 1 is closest to the rear of the car, thus when you pull the carb and turn it over the "hole" to the left is #1 and the "hole" to the right is #2.

Also, does your track have a gear rule?  Our track has a minimum gear rule so everyone runs the same gear.  At our track all the experienced drivers flat foot it around the entire track so momemtum is very crucial, thus everyone runs a 15 clutch gear more maximum top end.  Once your driver gets more experience run a 14 or 15 clutch gear.  Run a rear gear that will keep you right under hitting the rev limiter.

Dan
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on July 25, 2008, 09:59:25 am
Thanks for all the info, you are a lifesaver.  Our track doesn't have a gear rule and the first week we were on the revlimiter so this week we made a 4 tooth change and we are now off of it.  I am going to try going up 2 teeth and see where that puts us.  We are running the 15 on the clutch.  He is already flatfootting it but he does let off some in the corners just to help the motor not stumble as much in the corner.

Just wondering how this  stuff works,  how does the carb get vacuum from the valve cover.  Wouldn't the port on the carb pull more vacuum?  Not doubting you I just like knowing how stuff works and I have worked on cars for years and this new stuff makes no sense to me.

Kevin
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: justfreaky on July 25, 2008, 11:53:36 am
Kevin,
 Don't know if this helps any; But Shane is pretty knowledgable on these go kart type engines. Try this link:

http://www.affordablegokarts.com/fuel-pump-setup.php

Steve
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: DCK2683 on July 25, 2008, 10:26:00 pm
Quote
Just wondering how this  stuff works,  how does the carb get vacuum from the valve cover.  Wouldn't the port on the carb pull more vacuum?  Not doubting you I just like knowing how stuff works and I have worked on cars for years and this new stuff makes no sense to me.

It's all because of the restrictor.  The restrictor reduces air and fuel flow.  These low horsepower engines with vaccum pumps do not need much disruption in vaccum/air flow to cause issue.  When the restrictor is put on it causes enough of the air flow (vaccum) to be decreased coupled with the "forces" of banking to limit the fuel going in the carb enough to sputter.  Within the valve cover it is no different than any other engine in that there is constent pressure from the engine parts and it has to be vented no matter what or it could cause internal damage.  This is why there is a overflow on the #2 cylinder valve cover, it not only acts as both an overflow and vent.  So there is enough air/vaccum within the valve cover area.    When not running a restritor you should always have the vaccum off the carb. 
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: justfreaky on July 29, 2008, 12:55:31 pm
Kevin,
 Did you find your  problem? Wondering what the solution ended up to be?
Hope all is working good now!

Steve
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on July 29, 2008, 10:35:11 pm
I am waiting for some parts from 600 to get the carb back together.   I am going on vacation this weekend so hopefully next weekend we will find out how it does.   I also need to order some weight for this thing because if all this works I think he is going to be looked over pretty good. 

This is nice having help like this.  I am used to being the person helping out alot of people setting up their dirt cars.  It is hard to get truthful help where I am and noone around me has ran these cars or the legends so I am on my own big time.

Thanks again guys,
Kevin
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: justfreaky on July 30, 2008, 01:35:05 am
Kevin,
 I hope you enjoy your vacation! Always good to get away from the everyday stuff we call life.

 There are a lot of very good people on this site!  Also, Not a lot of info out there on these cars. We all learn from each other. Your problem this week may help me, or someone else, with our problems in the future. I appreciate you sharing with us! I also hope that you have found some useful information.

 Best of Luck!


Steve
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on August 01, 2008, 09:00:28 am
We went and practiced the car last night and I think I need to go down on the jets now.  I have some black smoke coming out of the front cylinder and at full throttle it just stumbles and tries to die.  At about quarter throttle it does good.  I put  the 110 jets in it.  I ordered a new rocker cover that had the vacuum port on it for the fuel pump and ran the pulse line to that.  Cleaned the fuel system and ran new fuel lines and filter.  I am going to put 98 jets in it now because the plugs are turning black.  While sitting in line to go out it seemed ok but when he went to go it died and from then on it was missing real bad and smoking .

This was a bad day all around because I forgot the jets for the car, the quick jack,  my air compressor didn't want to work right , my generator didn't want to work and my legends car I have had problems getting a good brake pedal on had no brakes at all when I got on the track.

Racing is so much fun!!

Thanks again guys and I will let ya'll know how it does after vacation,
Kevin
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: justfreaky on August 01, 2008, 12:57:16 pm
 That 110 jet is way to large.

 You have to remember to take all the tools and parts with you.  ;)
It might help to make yourself a check list. Check off the tools, spares, etc... as you load them up.
Just a thought.

 Post in the Legends section if you need help with your brakes. These guys are sharp! They'll help you out.

 If it makes you feel any better, Al bumped his head and I chopped off the end of my finger. Don't worry; Als head is fine!  ;D

 Hope the weekend works out for you.

Steve
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: DCK2683 on August 03, 2008, 11:14:01 pm
The 110's maybe too big then, I know at Vegas and Houston (both 3/8ths) the carb setup I posted is the preferred setup, however as we all know not all tracks are the same.  Did you adjust the black knobs on the carb at all?  We have run 100 jets with some success.  The 98's may work ok, not much off the 100's.  Just make sure it is not running to lean.   
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: elimn8u_43 on August 04, 2008, 09:37:40 am
my legends car I have had problems getting a good brake pedal on had no brakes at all when I got on the track.

Racing is so much fun!!

Thanks again guys and I will let ya'll know how it does after vacation,
Kevin

Check to make sure that the front brake pads are seated properly in the caliper brackets. I had a similar problem with my car and after replacing everything else this is what it turned out to be. When I was putting the caliper on the bottom of the pad would kick out and not contact the rotor. I hope this helps.

Geoff
Title: Re: Carb Loading Up
Post by: 3nracing97 on August 06, 2008, 09:40:34 pm
I ordered another carb monday that way I have one that is supposed to work and I am getting more jet to play with.  I tried adjusting the screws and it was just way too rich,  the plugs were completely black.  When it ran before it did good all the way around the track with the 94s except for the sputtering in the corners. We are going to try 98's and hopefully we are getting close.

I think the problem on the brakes was the rear drums were pretty loose and I had the plunger a little too tight on the master cylinder.  I will check the pads though, better safe than no brakes!!