LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Setup and Handling => Topic started by: rutter3r on September 22, 2010, 09:05:17 pm
-
I was wondering if there is a good starting point I could set my car at. I'm new to the legends this season. We go to the track and go ouit for warm ups. I make the adjustments I feel I need and go out for heat. Again make proper adjustments. Go to feature done. When I get home I try to set car back to where I started. If I just set car to ride heights everyweek would that be a good starting point. I don't have scales so as of now I'm not sure where I'm at.
-
With no scales, Keep lots of records as to how the car handles and the track conditions. Your best bet would to borrow a set of scales or pay someone set the car up for you. Then make lots of notes so you can get back to the baseline set up.
Steve
-
I was wondering if there is a good starting point I could set my car at. I'm new to the legends this season. We go to the track and go ouit for warm ups. I make the adjustments I feel I need and go out for heat. Again make proper adjustments. Go to feature done. When I get home I try to set car back to where I started. If I just set car to ride heights everyweek would that be a good starting point. I don't have scales so as of now I'm not sure where I'm at.
Scaling is more important on dirt than asphalt, but you need to get it scaled one way or another.
Where are you located? Could be somebody here that could help you out
-
I am planning to get a set in the off season. I am taking notes eveyweek. That's how I get back to base set up. Not knowing the numbers I think is hurting. I still have a ton to learn on set up. I guess ride heights is not a good base to start with then. We run diffrent tracks so would they change for each track?
-
Yes
rutter3r is in PA if anyone can help him get his car scaled.
Steve
-
Just a question. I'm wondering why u think scaling a dirt car is more important than an asphalt car? I make a 1/8 turn to adjust my car on asphalt and it takes more than a 1/8 turn to change the handling the same on dirt. On dirt a driver can drive it if its off a little. It is harder on asphalt. Not saying your wrong I'm just wondering.
-
1/8 of a turn on the Bilstien coil over is equal to about one one hundreth of an inch (.01"), or 3 thicknesses of your average copy paper. Lets apply that to a 250 lb spring just for fun. That would be an adjustment of one quarter of one pound, or 4 ounces. That would indicate that as soon as you make your first 1/4 pace lap, the loss of fuel used in the lap would cause your car to be undriveable.
Every car should be set up correctly to start. Weekly scaling is much more important on a dirt car due to the fact that the car and its individual components take alot more abuse, and have more of a chance of loosening up or bending without contact than on asphalt. Weekly scaling will also be a tool to help you discover problems, i.e. a slightly bent ball joint that looks fine on your nut and bolt check will throw off your weights and cross enough that you will know there is something to look for before it breaks next time out.
-
I am planning to get a set in the off season. I am taking notes eveyweek. That's how I get back to base set up. Not knowing the numbers I think is hurting. I still have a ton to learn on set up. I guess ride heights is not a good base to start with then. We run diffrent tracks so would they change for each track?
Ride heights dont necessarily have to change for every track, but your desired cross weight will be different depending on the track configuration
-
It's two tenth of a percent of cross. You should be able to feel that on asphalt and not so much on dirt.
-
Hello Tony,
Now, not trying to continue this off topic discussion, and not knowing your set-up, I will figure the numbers on the aforementioned 250# spring. Do not get offended, I'm just using general numbers, nothing personal. I will assume you meant an 1/8 turn at every corner to try to get close to the 2% number. This is a general calculation in which I will assume a set-up set at 1300lbs with driver, the legal minimum. A 1/8 turn at opposing corners on all four corners (2 up, 2 down), assuming a straight chassis and all other normal variables, should only change the cross weight a maximum of .14%. Obviously this is a general number and has nothing to do with much of anything, just trying to get to your .2%.
Now, back to the topic...
Theres alot of PA guys around, I'm sure someone on here will help you get your car scaled.
-
Thanks guys for your posts. I didn't mean to start things here. I just was wondering if I could find a good way to set up my car without scales. Want to stop chasing my car every week. I think I'm so far out to lunch since I bought it. I guess I will ask around to get it on a set of scales. Not sure where I should start at when we scale it anyway. I saw a class on set up in VA. Do you guys think that would help a new guy alot,?
-
A good start to learning about setting the car up would be getting Steve Smith's Dwarf Car Technology book. Title is dwarf car but most of it is interchangeable between the dwarfs and legends.
-
Thanks guys for your posts. I didn't mean to start things here. I just was wondering if I could find a good way to set up my car without scales. Want to stop chasing my car every week. I think I'm so far out to lunch since I bought it. I guess I will ask around to get it on a set of scales. Not sure where I should start at when we scale it anyway. I saw an class on set ups in va. Do you guys think that would help a new guy alot,?
No worries, it's the beginning of the 8 month off season for alot of us, so I tend to get a little snarky once in a while ;D
Theres really not a good way without a set of scales. Dirt or Asphalt? What track? Degree of banking? There are general numbers, and you will learn alot from the Steve Smith book, but the more info the better we can help.
-
All I can say is that last weekend I moved 1/8 turn down on the RR and 1/8 turn up on the LR and it took the car from tight in center to way loose off. This was a 1/4 mile, flat, asphalt track. Yea, 1/8 turn matters on asphalt. Don't know about dirt!
-
John why dont you take your car to Pats he has scales ?????
-
All I can say is that last weekend I moved 1/8 turn down on the RR and 1/8 turn up on the LR and it took the car from tight in center to way loose off. This was a 1/4 mile, flat, asphalt track. Yea, 1/8 turn matters on asphalt. Don't know about dirt!
Yes, that would make the car more free, assuming we mean the same thing when saying "up" or "down". If your shocks are mounted upside down or not could cause confusion in the terminology. I am assuming you took an 1/8 turn out of the LR and put an 1/8 turn in the right rear...? If you mean the opposite, it could still be loose off, causing a push-loose condition, where the car is still tight, but is loose on exit due to excessive steering correction input by the driver for the tight condition.
-
http://www.centralpalegends.com
Try here.I am sure they can point you in the right direction.
-
I was wondering if there is a good starting point I could set my car at. I'm new to the legends this season. We go to the track and go ouit for warm ups. I make the adjustments I feel I need and go out for heat. Again make proper adjustments. Go to feature done.
When I get home I try to set car back to where I started.
If I just set car to ride heights everyweek would that be a good starting point. I don't have scales so as of now I'm not sure where I'm at.
Rutter,
I have highlighted two statements from your original post ask have to ask the obvious question to me; why?
If you set the car at home and adjust it during the night to make it better, why would you go home and re-set it back to where you started. I mean, you start off in square one, you make adjustments and get to square 3 or 4 (when 10 is the goal) you go home and adjust the car back to square one.
You should go home and check the car to make sure it is still with the specifications of the rulebook and leave it alone. Make notes of your adjustments at the track and the results on the car when you return home, so if it gets banged up you have established the starting point for your driving style and personal preference to make your car the fastest it can be.
Just because I set-up someone’s car with a set-up that works for me, doesn't mean it will work for them. It is close, but adjustments have to be made for their driving style, once we get the car where they like it, I take all of the measurements, including scale numbers and give it to them so they have their preferred starting point.
You are making the adjustments to make the car better; it is not beneficial for you to take those adjustments out after every race.
If there are any specific questions I can answer for you please shoot me a PM.
Randy -RPM
-
All I can say is that last weekend I moved 1/8 turn down on the RR and 1/8 turn up on the LR and it took the car from tight in center to way loose off. This was a 1/4 mile, flat, asphalt track. Yea, 1/8 turn matters on asphalt. Don't know about dirt!
This is where the topic gets a little of the awkward variety......
We DO NOT utilize heavy asphalt spring rates on DIRT.
HEAVY spring rates used on asphalt, upsets the chassis ON OUR SURFACE (bumps and grooves maybe ?), and the body roll we try obtain cannot be met with heavy springs.
I honestly don't remember utilizing a heavy spring rate for an asphalt car on my Legend since around the year 2002
With a 325 lb spring, 1/8 th of a turn will make a big difference and with a 180 lb spring 1/8 of a turn will not make a BIG differnece.
SOOOOOO in my mind this adjustment part of the arguement is over. You can't compare a monster truck suspension spring rate to that of an Indy Car
lol (no I am not giving up any dirt set-up spring rates... sorry)
I will tell you out of spite that I start the night out with 41 or 42 percent cross though
----- The Gimpster -----
-
Wow Steve, you edited out all the fun stuff!
Gimpster, hope you're feeling better...your typing seems to have some spunk to it, hope you feel the same!
-
Haha, you guys were giving me that ole racing feeling back, there for a while !
~ Gimpster ~