LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => General => Topic started by: Vern Houseman on November 27, 2010, 08:45:14 am
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Ok guys heres my prob ? everytime we run our ashalt car we have a serious prob with oil comming out of crank case vent, we ran at wall turkey durby this weekend and besides our other probs on the track this oil prob was getting all over the right side of car causen car to get loose, anyone have any ideas ? we do have a catch can .
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How much oil are running in the car? How old is the motor? How is your catch can plumbed and where is it located?
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motor was built this summer ,while we where at a shootout in charlott this prob began as we got faster,running oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 in glass when motor is off. the catch can is mounted right above the vent in front of the carbs with a drain line going into the oil fill hole have run it without the drain setup and still have same prob ?
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Some heavy engine oils do not have polymeres formulated in the oil. I used to have a 1250 with the same issue on dryslick 3/8 mile tracks where there is a lot of decell time. Even after rebuild it would blow oil out the breather in the same situations. the oil has to have an anti foaming agent (poly) in it. First I cut a brillo pad and stuffed part of it into the breather hose where it slips over the breather nipple. that knocked it down but we were still a lot of oil in the catch can. I switched to Honda GN4 motorcycle oil ( with poly in it for gear case foaming) and that helped too. Eventually I ran a breather hose from the engine, along the inside of the driveshaft tunnel to a catch can which I located from a built bracket adapted to where the fuel cell mounting hold down plate stud is at (up high). Problem was solved. The engine never did blow any oil for the life of the engine after that.
I blamed the issue on oil foaming in the gear case from molecular break down while compressed between the gear teeth and oil pooling in the gearcase side of the engine from g-forces of the corner. Motor is mounted sideways as apposed to in th ebike it was designed for. I must warn you that if you switch to a good quality motorcycle oil that your engine may have a tendency to smoke for a while. These engine oils are high in detergent and will clean the scum cooked onto the bottom of pistons left by what I call dirty oils (havoline, valvoline, castroil etc...) and may cause the engine to smoke as it cleans the scum internally. Eventually that problem will clear up. Anyway, my theory on topic is that you have a foaming issue going on with your oil in the gearcase because it is not draining back into the pan quick enough in a foamed state.
----- Gimpster -----
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thanks Gimpster will look into that we are running amsoil 20/50 motor cycle oil too
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There is still something I am overlooking in that situation then. I laid out the post above kind of to inform newbies of some of the simple fixxes. The info hasn't been posted in a while. Figuered you knew most of that and had it covered, Vern. I run the Amsoil also since I am a dealer for it, without the issue in all 3 of my 1200's with no special breather modifications other than a smal K&N filter on the end of the hose to keep dust out of the engine. Ran that breather system I mentioned on the 1250 that we did have issue with. Almost makes me question the overhaul they did or if a ring or two didn't seat during mineral oil break in ? Hope it isn't a cracked head or sleeve issue.... Do a leakdown test on the cylinders to nail any of those issues
Later
----- Gimpster -----
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thanks Gimpster will look into that we are running amsoil 20/50 motor cycle oil too
I agree, not an issue with the oil itself.
So if I read correctly (sorry, tired), your can drains directly into the fill hole. Do you have a picture of your set-up?
Correct me if Im wrong, but wouldnt there be pressure from inside the engine forcing the oil from draining back, thus pushing it out the breather filter on your catch can?
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Your right , kinda but I was thinking that there is preasure from both hoses but under cuation it would drain back in ? and last nite at wall the turkey durby was plenty of cuastions ?The next thing im going to try is moviing the tank as hi as I can onto the firewall ? the only prob now is the car wont be run till next year if there is another million dollar race or special race. as fare as something cracked ?we checked what we could and everything came up ok.kinda wish windage trays where legal. maybe that would be the ticket Jason runs this car as hard as it will take it so I have to come up with something ?
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You can NOT run "vent" lines from BOTH the vent and a fitting on the oil fill. Both are PSI and WILL pump oil. Now if you are not using the rear oil pan port on the left side of the pan as a return. This is a NON PSI port and is used by alot as a overflow return. If you can not use that port you can use a catch / over flow can, I have scene a old bottle used. You should not get that much oil, unless it is over filed. Now when you are on pavement the oil sees more Gs that push the oil out the vent
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thanks Dave
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NP..
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You can NOT run "vent" lines from BOTH the vent and a fitting on the oil fill. Both are PSI and WILL pump oil. Now if you are not using the rear oil pan port on the left side of the pan as a return. This is a NON PSI port and is used by alot as a overflow return. If you can not use that port you can use a catch / over flow can, I have scene a old bottle used. You should not get that much oil, unless it is over filed. Now when you are on pavement the oil sees more Gs that push the oil out the vent
Thanks for confirming...I thought that was the case
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your prob right about vent lines. I just tryed it this past race. it was only hooked up to just the vent before this weekend with a petcock on the bottom of the vent can and still had alot of oil blowing out. we have the texas style filter system on the car where we use bother oil pan ports, so I cant use the back one to vent the can.could i make another connection in front of pan where some people hook up the temp sending unite ?
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I also used both ports and 2 coolers. So, I took the petcock out of the vent can and ran a hose to a old oil bottle and tiewrapped to the cooler and frame. Drilled a hole in the bottle cap and put the hose into it. I would get maybe a few ounces over a year in the bottle over a season, bt no oil on the body or tires. Also when I change the oil I use a painters bucket that had markings on it . this way I put the same amount in that came out. This helps with over filling the car and then having the motor push it out on high speed tracks
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Whoa whoa whoa! The method you have for the can is fine, if you understand why this is being done. The car I am currently racing is plumbed EXACTLY that way, although the type and size of can will make some difference. Make sure the vent line is plumbed into the bottom of the can and the line from the fill is to the side port of the can, this serves two purposes. 1)The vent will push oil into the bottom of the can under high rpm's, under lowere rpm's it will go back into the motor through the same line it came out of and the oil will not stay in the can robbing you of oil. 2)The oil fill port vented into the can will allow ALOT of heat from the motor to vent out of the can through the can breather. I plumbed ALOT of car back into the oil pan, I will not do this ANY more. The pan is full of oil. this port goes into the bottom of the side of the pan, oil cannot go back into the pans because the pan is full, and it can push some oil up that line. Now back to the problem, USLC HAD issues with the sleeves they were using and the result was loss of hp and blow by. Contact John Hagan At USLC and let him know your semi-fresh motor is down on power and pushing oil, they will work with you and get you back to what you paid for. They have changed to a different sleeve, the hp is better and problems like your are fewer.
Dennis Knox
Buckeye Legends
330-310-9212
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Thanks for the good info Dennis.
Clearly stated 'the sleeve'. I took for granted that everyone knew about the issue USLC had with them.
I believe the oil blowing issue he is having is clearly USLC's baby to resolve from here
----- Gimpster -----
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So instead of having a petcock in your overflow canister, you have a line from the bottom of your catch can going back to the vent.
I can see your points, makes sense.
I guess my question is how do you know when you are getting excessive blow-by, as you are plumbing it so that all the oil goes back to the engine?
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My 2 cents. I have the Hank Scott setup with a catch can returning the the back side of the oil pan. It's been working great but I have a few friends that it still didn't work for. What we have found out is the breather line out the top of the motor cannot go down hill at all. We had great results even with no can that way. We had big time problems with two motors and it fixed it 100% that way. For what its worth.
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I just run a hose to a breather filter on my cars, so I really can't say much, just trying to understand the ideas being tossed around with the ventilation/plumbing
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Jim, I guess that's what I was trying to say. It's hard to imagine if your blowing oil that it's that simple to fix. But I think it is. I've seen some motors blowing pretty bad and just a hose straight up with a breather works great.
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You can NOT just change to the Hank set up if the motor is not set up for that. The oil pan port is low PSI around 27 and the line or filter side is around 70 psi. These two can NOT be tied together unless you have and KNOW that the PSI on the low side of the pump has been shimmed to = the PSIs out. IF you just run the lines and the low PSI side is not adjusted when tied together the bypass in the oil pump will be at the low PSI and BOTH lines tied into one will be at the lower PSI....BOOM
So, If you have a line to from the front port of the pan and the oil from that line returns to the pan rear port. And the one at the filter comes from the motor and the returns to the motor at the stock filter location (two Sep. systems) I would not change it until the motor was get freashend and the builder told you it was OK
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Again you do not have to have the pump shimmed to run a Scott style oiling system!!!!! I have run them for years and installed them on ALOT of cars with great results! I run a Fluidyne cooler with fan, a 3 port oil filter adapter that takes a standard filter. It is plumbed exactly like a popular system. The components are available to make your own oiling system as follows. Cooler temperatures mean better HP.
Fluidyne cooller $219.00
8" Fan $ 70.00
3 port filter adapter $100.00
Oil line / fittings $100.00 - $250.00 depending on the type line and fittings used.
Misc. $ 50.00
Labor $ 0.00
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Just talk to your motor guy, before you do anything regarding oil lines...as I did
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Question about who runs fans. In big cars if u run the fan the car gets hotter during the green flag run. The fan kind of makes a air dam at speed, when its running. I understand during cations it helps but I was thinking you maybe better off with more airflow during green flag without it.
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Well its a little hard to take it off under the green, just kidding. I do know of a team that does not run a fan. i use mine as a puller, temps are lower with the fan. I would be interested in others input too.
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Do you run it under green laps? Or just cautions?it so hard to know because the temp of this motors get so dang hot. And are u a dirt or asphalt? I'm sure u would need to run one on dirt. Between dirt packing in the cooler and slightly slower speeds. (in some cases).
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I agree dirt would cause a whole new situation, we run asphalt and we do run the fan while under green. i have heard so many people talk about the draw of the fan and the possible hp loss from the alternator. i know one thing, these motors are exspensive and they run hot as you said, so we run the fan under green.
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So let me throw this out there. How fast is the fan pulling air thur the cooler? 30 40 mph? I don't know but can't be more then that right. Well how fast are u going on the track? 50 to 80? I'm just throwing numbers out but good guess? Well if your fan is only going so fast won't it almost act like a air dam if you are going faster then the fan can pull thur. I kind of think it's better to not have it on the car so air can pass thur easier. I'm not a air tunnel guy but I do know big cars got hotter with the fan on and that's my guess why. I know it a bit off topic. Sorry.
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I use a Setrab 920 on both my cars with no fans in the dirt.
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Ok cool Jim. I'm glad I'm not crazy then. Everyone out in southern California run fans and it didn't make alot of sense to me. Thanks Jim.
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I run the setrab to by the way. Seems like a great cooler.
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I dont run a temp gauge, but we run one in Dans car, and it hasnt gotten over 200.
Theyre not cheap, but they're worth it to me
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No fans or gauges here.
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I run a temp gauge and a fan. I turn the fan on at the first caution or at about 10 lap mark. I leave it on after the race and put a house fan on the car also. Every two minutes or so I will crank the engine over to pump cool out of the cooler and get some of the hot oil out of the engine. I repeat this about four or five times after the race. Kevin Yeatts showed me this trick years ago and I think he learned it from Hank Scott. It is just what I have always done.
Scott
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You know this is a good discussion, we run our fans on the back side of the cooler, maybe alot of guys run the on the front and that would for sure restrict air flow, i figure if its on the back it cant really restrict air across the cooler. The Setrab is a nice cooler, but they are kind of heavy and i have seen alot of them leak after a while, I think it is because they are so thick and rigid. i like the Fluidyne because its flexible and thinner and it cools as well if not better. The thinner Fluidyne coulpled with a low profile fan allows you to move the cooler back away from the grill about an inch and a half.
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Ok, I am actually a wind tunnel guy.......and an engineer (I know, boooooo)......I have worked in automotive and Air Force wind tunnels for the past 10 years primarily in cooling system testing. And while I wasen't the technical test engineer I am around a lot of those aero guys (I know poor me, these guys are worse than us regular engineers :-\ ).
If the fan is not running it can likely run as fast as the airflow pushes it (assuming there are very little mechanical losses in the fan). But you still do get a little bit of back pressure (reverse blockage) that increases the faster you go (I don't know how fast you need to go for this to be a problem except that at Mach 3.0 it's a lot). You would have no current draw in this situation. Infact if you were super smart you could actual use the fan turning to charge your battery (or boost your ingition power.....)
If the fan is running and the vehicle speed is less than what the fan is pulling then the fan will "make-up" the difference in airflow and increase your cooling (using less current draw the faster you go....to a point)
If the fan is running at the same air speed as the vehicle then in theory the fan would have little to no load on it thus drawing little to no current from the charging system. So you won't need to worry about your battery draw. And you are getting little to no "help" from the fan.
However if the vehicle air speed is faster than the fan air speed and the fan is running the fan will likely continue trying to hold the max speed the fan is designed for (because most of these fans do not have a clutch). Thus restricting airflow and increasing current draw on the charging system. Of course this assumes that you will never be behind somebody who is slowing/disrupting the air in front of you.
If the fan is mounted on the front of the cooler it will likely block at least some airflow even when running. I would not recomend this unless you do most/all of your racing at speeds less than what the fan pulls. I'm not trying to say anything here but some of us maybe be that slow :D
I was wondering if there is a fan out there that has a clutch that would allow it to spin faster than it's max without increasing load or damaging the fan? That would be ideal otherwise I'm thinking a fan is only useful if you remember to turn it on and off properly (which I could never do during a race this past year)
If I get a chance I will try and run some calculations on what air speed the fans are pulling the see how far off we are. Does anybody know what cfm these fans pull? I'm thinking arounf 500cfm (for an 8-9inch) but I'm not sure.
Gerad
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Why do I always feel like I am the nerd who takes things way to far? :-\
Anyway, I ran the calculations on a 9" fan that runs at 500cfm and it is only pulling air at about 12.8 mph.
That's pretty slow, I don't know if we are really getting value from the cooling fan even under caution? Maybe red flags?
I am begining to think that either these fans do have some sort of clutches or they aren't doing us any good, unless you can find an 9 inch fan that pulls nearly 3000cfm.....good luck.
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Also you have to think of the ppl that have fans on other areas than just the cooler...They are alot of people that have fans blowing down on the back of the head and tube tube fan on the fire wall blowing on the back of the head/jugs...
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Thank u Gerad very interesting.
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Now if Gerad can just help us sneak a legends car into a wind tunnel, we can have some fun. ;)
My cooler with the fan did not keep the oil temp below 300 by the end of a feature, so it sounds like I need to do something different. To cool it down last year after the race, I put a leaf blower in front of the engine and left it going for a few minutes. It did move a lot of air and seemed to help. Leaf blower died so I went to a little Harbor Freight generator and house fan this year (for my one whole race).
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Makes me think.... suggesting the fan will charge the battery and supply lost power back to the ignition system. Only problem with this theory is the diodes in the regulator (one way) not allowing voltage back into or beyond the regulator into the charging system. Might charge the battery if the fan was wired directly to it's posts. If the fans could put charge back into the ignition system..... too much voltage would burn out light bulbs, tacometers and ignition boxes. I would have to throw that theory out the winder.
Fans are a waste of time and money over here racing on dirt. We don't see the outside temps that most of you do. Majority of our races are at night and we don't see hot weather until around July.... cools down quick in the evening when we race too. Checking the head tempurature, after a run, with my mini temp gun (laser) shows the same head temps if you are running a fan during the race or not running a fan. Maybe 20 degrees ? (remember I said around here) That could be the difference in humidity per night. What I did find that made a difference for lower temps is having the header tubes wrapped and as many louvers in the hood as allowed, directing air flow to the head. I watch my oil temps after each race with my mini temp gun at the oil pan line fittings. When I pull in, the hood comes off while the engine is running and a box fan laid facing downward over the engine. Keeping the engine running while it cools with the fan will not only cool the head but the oil evenly. My concern is the fiber on steel of the clutch discs over and beyond the engine temps. If you turn off your engine..... cool it with a fan and fire it up after a short period, the oil, the aluminum, the steel and the fiber parts in the engine cool at a different pace. This my friend WILL lead to premature engine part failure and wear. Hard on rings, valve guides bearings, clutch fibers etc..... You know what happens with a hot piece of steel and cold water..... temper of the steel changes. Turning off an engine and forcing air on it then restarting the engine does the same thing to engine parts as hot steel and cold water.
Maybe this is why my engines last so long without issue ? Maybe because I have been a tech in the motorcycle industry for 30+ years that I know this stuff second nature ? I have said more already than I intended to...... lol
----- Gimpster -----
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How far down do you wrap the headers? Just the runners or all the way down the muffler?
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Keep this in mind when wrapping you exhaust. i used the header wrap everyone uses, I believe it is suppose to be fire retardant. I had a rod come through the block, the oil saturated the wrap and there was a fire. The wrap was like a huge torch soaked in oil, it caused alot of damage and heat in the cockpit. That was the last of the wrap for me, lol.
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I fully agree with gimpster!!
Yes, like I said the fan charging thing was beyond my mental capacity (and apparently the charging system capacities too ??? )
Sounds like the oil cooling fan again doesn't do much good.
I also agree with the cooling principle he brought up. This past year after going through two engines (due to other issues) I borrowed an engine from a guy with one stipulation, that I "don't put a fan on the motor".
That guy and I agreed about the thermal transfer through the motor and the danger in cooling certain parts unevenly and there effect on a sort of an uneven tempering condition. And to prove that point the engine I was using was a 1250 orginally built in 2000 and had never been rebuilt and was still running pretty good. It had over 300 races on it!
Leaving your engine running and cooling all down gradually is by far the best way to go!!! In my opinion anyway.
I am know going to order header wrap!
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Keep this in mind when wrapping you exhaust. i used the header wrap everyone uses, I believe it is suppose to be fire retardant. I had a rod come through the block, the oil saturated the wrap and there was a fire. The wrap was like a huge torch soaked in oil, it caused alot of damage and heat in the cockpit. That was the last of the wrap for me, lol.
It will also cause alot of corrosion and you'll be replacing your header pipes every 3 years
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I thought the header tubes were stainless?
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Honestly... I normally tear up a header before it has time to rust. I don't like header wrap but I use it because of the sideways mounted engine. If you have the air scoop between the header and block, it deflects heat. I'm biased on them feeling they collect heat. I hate them things and do not use them... hence, the wrap instead. With my temp gun I see cooler head temps after a run without that POS. Wrapping the muffler... I don't but other cars out of my stable do.
----- Gimpster -----
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I thought the header tubes were stainless?
Maybe they are...I'm just going by past experience on non-Legends cars
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I know the S & S is stainless.... I have no issues with them rusting. The Borola on my first Legend was a rusty POS and I laughed while telling my wife it is suppused to be stainless
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This whole thread has come a long way from the original thread. Glad to see people taking intrest and going beyond the initial topic. So... My thoughts on the oil cooling issue and header wrap.
Header wrap can get soaked in oil and /or gasoline and will burn as Mr. Knox suggests. The theory of keeping the heat from the headers away from the engine is valid. Perhaps just wrapping the pipes where they are closest to the engine may be of some help. Heat sheilds made of aluminum could also be of some benefit. Similar to the aluminum heat sheild we used to put around the small block Chevy starter motors. ???
I would debate the effects of drag on the car vs the speeds that are run. I don't think overall speed of the car itself are reduced by very much if any. The pull type fan (mounted to the rear of the cooler) will likely help with more air flowing through and around the oil cooler. Whereas, the push type fans (because of the shroud) will block some of the cooling air that could be going through the oil cooler. So, I think the pull type fan is the better option.
As Gimpster pointed out, we do not get near the humidity or hot temps up here in the northwest that some of you get in the summer months. And, most races tend to be run in the late part of the day and evenings. The engine temps will still get high, but likely not as hot as say someone running down south in the middle of a hot afternoon. Letting the engine idle with the fans running will be of better benefit than shutting the engine off and blowing air over the engine and /or through the oil cooler. Some people use an external fan (as Dave did, and suggested) to blow air around the engine (especially to the firewall side of the engine) during the race to help cool the part that doesn't see as much air flow. I think Gimpsters anology to tempering steel is a good one; and not far off base.
As for oil coming from the vent; Have you tried putting a loop in the vent line? Just a simple loop of tubing of the vent line between the engine and the breather. Mount the breather as high as possible with the loop slightly below it.
My two cents for what anyone thinks it's worth.
Steve
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Thanks Steve.... I will transfom the progression of this topic back to it's relevance. Heat = oil foaming. Plain and simple the anti-foaming inhibitors formulated into engine oils will once again break down under extreme heat noted in these sideways mounted engines that were origionally designed by the manufacturer as transverse. On top of it all many new racers to this series are not aware of the added polymeres needed in a motorcycle engine as the oil also is a gear lube. The new owner driver will convienently swing into their local Wal Mart's automotive department with 20-50 RACING oil on their mind for an oil change. Not aware the oil is not designed for the complete oiling system in a motorcycle engine. With the heat of these engines and breakdown of anti foaming agents and no poly for gear tooth compression the oil will break down to the point of total failure. Might as well have water in the crankcase. The situation will elevate the probability of oil foaming and blowing out through the breather. Vern mentioned running Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil along this topic's journey so I am near resolution that heat is playing a pretty good sized roll in the situation at hand. I still think there ia something else to be looked into on their oiling system and we most likely covered it under the catch can system topic earlier on in this conversation.
Anyway... thanks fellers.... hope I helped in some way during my babble
----- Gimpster -----
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There has been some mention of "motorcycle oil" vs "automotive type oil" in past threads on the great oil debate. Motorcycle oils are not only engine lube, but also transmission fluid and, as you mentioned, gear lube. Besides the heat factor, I think that vibration enters into the equation on oil foaming . Although I have never had this problem with any of my motorcycles, it could play a part in the apparently excessive oil going to the catch can / breather in the race car.
Gimpster,
I always enjoy your input. You give me lots of food for thought. Sent you a PM about the alternator thing. lol! Sometimes, I think we all get to overthinking things.
While wind tunnels and such would be cool !!! ... You can do the same sort of thing with some yarn, a little tape and a video camera. (and a few practice runs) Seriously; How far is getting too carried away? :-\
Steve
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I sent you a charging reply ... my friend !!
----- Gimpster -----
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Keep this in mind when wrapping you exhaust. i used the header wrap everyone uses, I believe it is suppose to be fire retardant. I had a rod come through the block, the oil saturated the wrap and there was a fire. The wrap was like a huge torch soaked in oil, it caused alot of damage and heat in the cockpit. That was the last of the wrap for me, lol.
I am going to try only partially wrapping the header tubes as mentioned on this topic. Just something new to experiment with that in theory should work to hold down heat. That header runs pretty hot, especially if it will ignite oil
----- Gimp -----
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I used header wrap on the modified and it had over the bell housing runners which really heated up the cockpit before the wrap. I see how they could hold oil if pieces depart from the inside of the block, so I guess it is the lesser of two evils. I might try wrapping the first few inches of the runners like Gimpster mentioned. That way I can also unwrap a runner every once in a while to check for rust without having to re-wrap everything. Pretty sure that mine are stainless, so hopefully rust will not be an issue.
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Also a little off topic, but in Smokey Yunick's book be talked about an alternator he worked on that had a small propeller instead of being belt driven. Just some useless trivia.
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Pretty much what Steve and I have been exchanging PM's about. Other charging sources. I told him that I had to call Honda tech line over and over for a Gold Wing I once had that had a serious charging discharge issue under braking, mega years ago. Tech line ended up turning me over to an engineer as they were stumped and would not agree with where I thought the energy was going. After about 3 hours of discussion on this unit, I finally found a guy that believed my thoughts that the brakes applied were the cause of draw and not a stator or wiring issue. That conversation with the engineer went pretty deep. Haha, long story short.... Honda came out with a hybrid that charged batteries during breaking a few years later. Geez... wonder if I started something that day explaining how the spinning rotor and brake pads applied were causing a draw from through a ground ? who knows...... maybe I opened some engineering eyes to another charge source ? haha I kinda like to think so anyway
Apology for steering off topic
----- Gimpster -----
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Off topic. Lol. This whole thread has been off topic. Lots of great stuff tho.
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lol wow
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See what you started Vern? :D
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We would rewrite the Boy Scout Manual by just setting up a christmas tree around here !
~ G ~
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You just gotta lov it you guys are the greatest................nutten but lovvvvvvvvv
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LMAO!!! We would all start talking race cars and the Christmas tree would end up turning 4 second quarter mile times. :D
Off season gets a little crazy around here.
Steve
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Here it is...
The VMS Motorsports powered 4 second Christmas tree ;D
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Looks like it is set-up for left turns....
Should probably mount some nerfs after the packages are installed
----- Gimpster -----
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watch out dont park in front of it, dam thing will run ya over lol
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I knew I could count on Jim to sponsor it! ;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Steve
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I want a trophy girl for Christmas
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Like this one?
Would have been my first heat race win til my jack-ass driver took it from me!
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Yup... just like that one
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Gimpster,
I hope Wanda doesn't read that comment. :o
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She don't bite that hard..... besides, making up is AWSOME !!
lol
----- Gimpster -----
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Any way... don't lose oil from your vent
haha
Honestly when I say I want a trophy girl... it means I want to win (just my humor)
I would never do anyhting like that that to my best girl.
I have been a loyal feller since meeting her in 1986
----- Gimpster -----
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BLAH
BLAH
BLAH
Gimpster.
We don't care that you don't like women, you're still family
;)
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e-r-r-c-h..... ??
That 4 second Christmas tree gots brakes !
----- Gimpster -----
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Heck if you guys have trophy girls like that in Wisconsin, I might have to make a trip out there to race. LOL
Joe
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That was at Angell Park in Sun Prairie...home of the National Midget Racing Hall of Fame.
It shut down for a while, then re-opened for a couple shows, now will be just once or twice a month USAC stuff, no more Legends.
They hire their trophy girls from a modeling agency
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Ha Ha. Check this pic out.....if it loads.
Like this one?
Would have been my first heat race win til my jack-ass driver took it from me!
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I hate you Dan.
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Let's see... Jim is leading (at least in this pic). Or are you a lap down? :o
BTW... Love the one green fender!
;D Steve
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Thanks Jim!
Actually that was the pass on the last lap. Jim was in the lead and he made me work hard for it.
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That was a week after I tore the front of the car off, thus the green fender and hood, no time to paint. Turn 1 final lap is that picture, I slipped high and Dan flew by me down low...bastard.
Anybody need a ride next year?
;)
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I remember the incident well.
Heard Dan was being replaced by your niece for weeks.
LOL!!!
So what was the topic? Oh yeah, Oil Comming From Vent...
I'm thinking that's not good. lol!
I hope you have the problem fixed.
Steve