LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Brakes => Topic started by: Bigmil on May 11, 2011, 10:08:16 pm
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So half wau through last season I began having a problem in which the brakes pull HARD to the left. Like if I wasen't strongly holding the wheel it would turn the fron left wheel all the way to lock.
As of tonight I have replaced the front right caliper, all the brake lines (hard and flex), the pads, replaced the shims and the master cylinder. And it still pulls hard.
When the car is up on jack stands and the pedal is depressed both of the front wheels stop to where I cannot spin the wheels.....
I don't know if the left side is pulling to hard or if the right is not pulling enough..
I have no idea what to do next.
Help!!
Gerad
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but do you run a proportioning valve? If so, could you have the lines hooked up wrong?
On dirt, I run the prop valve on the RF, so when braking it will cut pressure to the RF, helping turn and set the car left
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It really sounds like you have replaced everything but the problem, lol. The left front caliper. Also make sure the pads are wearing evenly on both sides, if a pad is wearing at an angle you may have a bracket issue.
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I no longer have the proportioning valve. I did last year, but when I replaced all the brake lines this year I left it out so I would have one less thing that go fail.
I just ordered a new fron t left caliper and another set a brake pads. Strangly my current pads don't appear to be wearing at all let alone unevenly. I'm wondering if the pads are messed up (so I am replacing them).
If it ain't this other caliper or pads I can only imagine I need to start re-replacing the hard lines again like something may have plugged them.....again.
I'm about to pull my hair out!
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The master cylinder has been bled as well as all calipers and wheel cylinders?
Getting good flow out of all brake cylinders and calipers?
Are both sets of front pads the same? (ie; both soft, medium or hard; Not mixed?)
Fresh brake fluid?
Steve
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Yes on all the bleeding, yes on getting good flow (they all squart several inches out from the bleed valve).
Not sure on the pads (I'm ordering new).
Yes, brand new DOT 4 brake fluid through the entire system.
Gerad
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There is RARELY a problem with the hard lines, what calipers and pads are you ordering? What front springs are you running?
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Dennis,
I asked similar questions as to matched calipers and pads. Flow seems to be good through the lines. IF it is a set up problem, I would be more inclined to belive that it is camber related. He is still waiting on the caliper and pads to be delivered. Guess we will know a little more after they arrive.
Steve
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With no valve a large front spring split will cause hard pull to the left, when the springs in the front are even (lets say a pair of 275's), the car will still pull to the left because the right front is really loaded on entry, this makes the left front light. Applying the same brake pressure to a loaded wheel as to an unloaded wheel will cause the unloaded side to pull. The more spring split the harder it will pull to the left. Many teams valve the left front, some run different pad compounds left to right. Just some general info you are probably familiar with.
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Dennis,
OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
Steve
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I know it's not my spring difference in the front because when I just drive it around my yard at less than 5 mph I still get the hard pull.
The Caliper on the right is a Cardone 19-144. The left I don't know, but I ordered at Cardone 19-145. So they will be matched.
I am begining to think it is the pads only because they appear to be really hard and have some cracks in them :-\ . So I can figure it out I will replace the pads first then drive it around my yard before I replace the caliper.
I can't image it would have anything to do with the brake discs but that will have been the only thing not replaced after the caliper and pads.
The actual original reason I replaced all the hard brake line over the winter was because during tear apart I saw what appeared to be "intentional" crimping of the hard lines apparently done by the previous owner. I was sure that was the problem.........
Thanks guys!!
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Gerad,
Please do let us know where things are at when you get your new caliper and pads replaced. I just don't see where it could be related to the new hard lines or brake fluid flow.
Steve
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Check the size of the piston on the calipers. Wondering if you have two different sizes.
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John,
He will have a matching set of calipers and brake pads here shortly. We should know soon as to whether this fixes Gerad's problem.
Steve
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Back to square one!!!!!.............
I replaced the pads and that didn't help, then I replaced the front left caliper and that didn't help. Then I thought that maybe the braided lines were a little kinked so I re-adjusted those (both of them)......still pulling hard to the left......
I'm losing my mind :-\
Maybe the caliper mounting brackets on one side are bent? I did wreck several times last year. Do you guys think that could be it? I didn't see any sign that the pads were wearing unevenly.....
I don't know what else to try! ???
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Do you still have your old proportioning valve?
If so, plumb it in to cut off the rear brakes to verify that it is indeed a front brake problem.
If your RR is not doing anything, you'll still pull, especially if the LR is adjusted out tight.
If you haven't flipped the springs, the rears will adjust themselves in or out over the course of a few races...I found that out the hard way last year.
You can have all the front brakes in the world, but if the rears aren't working, you aren't stopping.
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If the caliper bracket were bent, you should be able to see that when you spin your hub. You don't have enough hard braking on the pads to notice any odd pad wear at this point. You could plumb the proportioning valve to your left front and cut some pressure to the caliper.
Steve
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Are the pads wearing evenly (flAT), usually the pads will wear at an angle if the bracket is not right? If you remove the front wheels and look down on the rotor is should be centered in the pad bracket, it is typically the backing plate that gets tweeked, the new ones are universal for either side. I mentioned this early in these post, if the plate is not right is will pull for sure.
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I will check the brackets tonight, I won't have time to get replacments before the race on Friday but matbe something will stand out.
Jim, I don't know what you mean by having the rear springs flipped. I'm assuming you are talking about the brake adjusting springs. Are you saying they should be on backwards?
I no longer have the old proportioning valve but may be able to borrow one to try out.
I'm praying it's the brackets.
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If the caliper bracket were bent, you should be able to see that when you spin your hub. You don't have enough hard braking on the pads to notice any odd pad wear at this point. You could plumb the proportioning valve to your left front and cut some pressure to the caliper.
Steve
Thats just putting a band-aid on though Steve. Agree if a quick fix needed, but better to find the problem...
Just my opinion
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Yes. The springs have a 1/2" or so gap built into them so that you can adjust them easily. It also allows them to adjust themselves. If the gap is still open over the adjustment wheel, take the spring off and reverse it so that the gap is not over the adjuster. This will keep the rears from backing off
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Thanks Jim, I will switch the springs tongiht!!
I agree my goal is to fix the problem without the bandaid fixing it.
I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
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I just checked my records from last year and realized that the week before I noticed the brake problem I had a hard hit on the left front of the car. The hit was bad enough to break the spindle and I'm thinking hard enough to bend the caliper moutning bracket.
Now I am really hoping it is the caliper mounting plate on the drivers side. Now I just need to find one!! Hopefully Toby Alrey has one or my local dealer.
I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
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Just wanted to post an update.....
I replaced the caliper plates, caliper brackets and pads.......
The car still pulls to the left hard.
So, screw it, I am tried of wasting money and time fixing it, I am just going to learn how to drive it that way!
Sincerely,
Frustrated ???
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Gerad, What kind of Caster split do you run in the car? Is it a large split from left to right?
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I was going to ask a similiar question. After that wreck did you check and reset the LF caster? It almost sounds like you have negative or zero caster in the LF. When you drive the car and without using the brake does the car want to "drift" ot turn to the left when you let go of the steering wheel?
Mick
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I don't have a gauge to check my castor split.....A local guy set my car up this year with "his" setup. But this happened last year with a different setup and this year. Plus it happens when I am going 1 mph just as much as it does at 100mph.
The car drives perfect when I am not on the brakes.......no drifting or anything.
Gerad
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Gerad,
I ran a setup last year that had me at zero caster on the left front. It seemed to pull similarly to yours. Mine was actually more noticeable at lower speeds when I was going straight in the pits. On our track, you kind of arc into turn 1, so you have to turn and be on the brakes slightly at the same time, so it was hard to notice.
Just pull your driver side fender off real quick and give your spindle a look from directly above it. Caster is very easily seen. I mean as far as it being positive, negative, or dang close to zero. Let us know which ball joint is farther forward, or if they're pretty close to even. Try to eliminate it as a possibility,and even if it doesn't appear to be an issue, at least its getting one more step toward what it could be.
I've never noticed an issue with tracking one way or the other being caster related. That's more of a toe thing.