LegendsRacer - Legends & Bandolero Racing Forum
LEGENDS => Setup and Handling => Topic started by: Racinjj on July 10, 2008, 10:33:45 am
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Has anyone tried the screws in the bead trick that 600 lets us do now? I lost a tire last week and dont want that to happen again. Anyone have any other suggestions? I really dont want to drill holes in my new wheels, I have heard about punching the rim bead surface to make it grip the bead better.
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If you go the sheetmetal screw route, "use #10 hex head sheet metal screws, and make sure they protrude well in to the bead to capture it (but not through it). Be sure to drill the holes small enough so that the screws will form threads when they are installed".
"Another way to keep the tire bead seated is to grind on the bead seating area to rough it up to get a better bead seat. Another way is to etch the bead seat with acid to get a rough seating surface. Another very effective method is to use a sharp punch to peen the bead seat area. Using this method can make the bead seat so rough that it is hard to remove a used tire. Another way to rough up the bead seat is to have it knurled. Knurling is a raised cross hatch pattern that can be applied on a lathe."
Steve
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Thank You Steve Smith ;D
I finally got the book but was wondering if anyone had real world experience with either method.
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Greg Hartlaub (purple and white #76) does it, he's the only one I know of by us
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Yeah, I saw that too but forget to ask him about it at the track. I am just really leary of drilling holes in wheels. If it will really hold the tire on I am all for it.
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I have used the roughing method, using a wire wheel; And also the punch method.
The punch method works extremely well. It will make it hard to take off an old tire.
I am seriously considering the knurling method this time around.
Like I keep trying to tell everyone...
Lots of good useful info in that Steve Smith book; "Dwarf Car Technology". Hence, the quotation marks.
There just isn't much out there for these small cars. Things like the screws in the beads, or roughing the bead seat area, are old school racing tricks that a lot of people have forgotten.
Steve
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We've been asking Darrell K at Inex for the last 2 years to let us run bead locks as a safety measure, I guess they just want to wait until more guys lose a right rear, catch the rim and go ass over tea-kettle. They keep saying no, it's too expensive and we have to keep the costs down...
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Jim,
I agree with you on the bead locks. I do think it is a better way to go. It also doesn't add "that much" more cost.
Steve
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I used a die grinder to rough up the bead on my chrome wheels. I found that if I let the bit sort of bounce on the wheel that it left a rougher surface. Not sure about putting screws in the wheel. A right rear beadlock would be the way to go. Only about $40 more for a wheel which is much cheaper than flipping the car. They might be worried about people getting crazy with air presures, but you can only go so far with radials and make them work.
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They keep saying no, it's too expensive and we have to keep the costs down...
Compare the cost of repairing the wrecked race car to the cost of a beadlock rim. Let them know which is cheaper. See if they really want to keep costs down ;).
Geoff
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Heck, we only want one bead lock rim. I know that we run with alot of BIG sprint car guys and I know what would happen if someone through one of those screws off and it was found in the tire of a $80,000 sprint car that was a piled up in a turn. BYE BYE Legends series at that track. The screw thing is a bad idea.
Scott
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I figured it was time to update everyone on how this has gone for me. I have roughed up the bead area and dimpeled it with a punch and I have still had 2 tires come off the bead on my RR while running 12psi. I am now going to try the sheet metal screws and bump my pressure up to 13 as this is my last option. I will let everyone know how that goes.
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what kind of rim are you running? I run12 psi and less and never have had an issue even when the track gets ruts in it. I use Bassett rims.
Scott
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I am running Bassetts as well.
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What are you running for a right rear spring??? I lost probably 3 right rears this year, but I usually run 8-10lbs depending on the track and have done nothing to my rim, unless the track is really rough, then I'll go up a lb. Just seems odd that you keep losing them
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Is it a really rough track?
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Its not really an exceptionally rough track. I didnt have any problems with the tires coming off until i got my new wheels. I noticed when I took them off my other wheels (same brand and style) the were really, really hard to get the bead off but their was no dimpling or scuffing. I think that they were just on their so long that they were just stuck that good.
I have a 165 RR, 155 LR spring.
I have a new plan of attack after talking to our top driver which doesnt involve screws. I will let everyone know if it works.
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Did you use soap to put them on? I have heard of this being a problem if you don't do it dry. I know that there is some kind of joke in that last statment............. ;D
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I noticed when mounting my tires dry by hand, that it really tore up the bead on the tire. Is the rubber on the beads really thin on these, or is it just the way it is with radials? I think that this one sounds pretty bad also, but could not think of a different way of wording it. ;D
Some of the wheel makers have raised beads on some of some lines of wheels. Wonder if they made a change on that line of wheels. Does Aero or Circle wheels have a raised bead wheel that would be legal?
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The wheels have a pretty good size beada hump on them.
I did put them on wet which I realize is an issue but I didnt want to tear the bead. My new plan is going to be to clean the wheel and the tire bead surfaces with acetone and then put bead sealer on. This is what our top guy does and he hasnt had one come off yet. I have a feeling that my soap is a good part of the problem.
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Windex works good for mounting tires.
Steve
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Where do you get bead sealer? Had not heard of that before.
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Do a google search for it and you will find it. Its used to seal leaky beads and used at most auto dealers and tire shops. You just paint it on like glue, its a rubbery black gel.
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Here are a few. I would check with your local tire shop first.
http://www.autobarn.net/beadsealer.html
http://www.patchrubber.com/tire_repair/16118.html
http://www.gemplers.com/product/147749/REMA-Rim-Bead-Sealer
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I have enough little tears in the beads from hand mounting them dry that they all have slow leaks. I might give this a try.