Unsealed motors

[FunFunFun]

From what ive heard about the sealed motors they don't seem to be the way that I want to go .I will not run a motor that I can't open .Ive also heard that 600 may be pushing for all cars to run the sealed motors .

If this is the case I will be running a different class .Ive  been taking down motors since 1976 and there are things that I need to see on a regular basis inside the motor to know if its running ok ,not just the spark plugs .

Ive seen a picture of a burnt piston on this site that had so much deposit on it that it was definitly detonating  , aswell  the amount of heat required to discolor the underside of that piston was more evidence of detonation. I would like to take my motor down at least every other week not just send it off to be rebuilt once a year . If you take care of a motor a rebuild is something that will happen on an ongoing basis not just a big bill ,when it doesent make power any more ,or worse when it throws something.

Also talk of loosing oil preshure without being able to look for trouble scares me a bit . guys talking about gunk cleaning in the oil coolers leads me to think that the oil galleries need cleaning aswell .How do you do this if you can't take down the motor?

I think the sealed motors are great for guys with lots of cash and a spare motor ,who don't want to get into learning the ins and outs of the 1200 but I intend on learning everything there is to know about this mill , as ive done with with every other motor that ive ever run.

I would realy like to know, Ive got a deal set up to get a car but I will drop it if I have to run a sealed motor in a year or two .

Does anyone know if INEX/600 intends on getting rid of the unsealed motors?

[MegaMang]

Only 600 racing can answer that question for sure.  Send them a note, see if you get a response.  Failing that, call their engine building shop and ask the question.  You may get a more candid answer.

As for the open motor, I like open motors and intend to get one or two to rebuild and use.  I'll keep using a sealed motor as well.  My brother has an open motor, so one will be for his backup and one for my backup motor.

There is the problem of a limited number of fj1200's to get your hands on.  Right now there are a number for sale, but in the next couple years we will have bought them all up.  At that point I expect that 600 racing will have moved up to the liquid cooled 1250.  Maybe they'll let us use the old sealed air cooled motors as open motors...

Mike

[FunFunFun]

Thanks for your reply Mike .

Ill call 600 today and find out what I can from them .

[legendcar49]

You may not be familiar with what is sealed. There is a seal between the head and cylinder. There is a another seal on the cam chain tensioner. You can still remove the clutch cover, valve cover, and oil pan.
I am not a motor guy, but I was surprised  how much access you had to the internals of the motor.

Bob Johnson

[FunFunFun]

I just talked with Chad at 600 It looks  as if   liquid cooled motors are the direction they are going ,this motor will cost more to begin with but will

outlast  the air cooled motors by far .They are runing them in the roadsters allready and have had great succces with them there.

They will be a sealed unit but the water jacket makes a huge diferance to me as far as reliability . 

As far as cost goes, they will cost more to start with but that cost will be recouped by not needing as many rebuilds .

I remember way back when my brothers and I raced dirt bikes ,we were there when the bike makers went from air cooled to liquid , on air cooled

bikes we were constantly  changing the piston and often the bucket as well. Then I think it was 1984 my first liquid cooled CR125 blew us away we

found that we had as much power at the end of the race as at the begining this was evident for the few years it took everyone to get into the liquid

cooled bikes. The air cooled guys kept up for a few laps then their power droped and every bike with a rad seemed to go to the front we

went from cleaning and fixing to just cleaning  ,not to say the liquid cooled mills never broke they just did it a lot less.

We found ourselfs pulling top ends off after two months worth of practice and racing because we thought we needed to by then

only to find crosshatch marks still in the bore and next to no marks on the piston skirts . These were two stroke engines but I expect the same

results on four strokes as well.

I am happy about the dessision about the liquid cooled motors and look forward to running Legends when they are available.

Im still recovering from a flailed chest from a wreak on the July long weekend one of my tires got me, I saw my  doctor on Monday and she wont let

me race anything at this time she is telling me maybe not next summer either  so the timing  of the new motor might work out great for me . 

Sorry guys if I seem a bit grumpy Im in a lot of pain or waisted on pain killers. I don't know which is worse.

But I thank all of you for your responce, Im trying to learn  as much as I can before I get into a new sport. Ive gone through many forms of racing in

the past  Dirt bikes , Endurance racing , Bracket racing,  Nostalga dragster ,Nostalga fuelers , Alchol dragsters and  Pro street I just don't want to make

any big mistakes.



Thanks again...

Chris

[Racinjj]

Any idea as to when they plan to make the switch?

I wonder if they will let the 1200 run the water cooled cylinder or if this will be their way of killing the 1200 all together?

Thanks for the update.

[thunder938]

I thinks the switch to all sealed is coming, but not for a while.  After the backlash 600 got when they changed the compression rule I dont thing 600 will do any thing for awhile. As for the water cooled motor, I hear that it will be only on sealed SOMEDAY.  The water cooled set up fits in the thunder cup cars, but with the rad., large water pump, and the firewall location I hear that getting the water cooled set into a legends is not easy.  The motors are too close to the firewall and the water cooled jugs on the thunder cups will not work, the fitting hit the firewall.  The rad. needs to be very large and that is a problem.  Dont get me wrong it coming, but not for a while.  As for open parts they are still out there. Most the sealed motor and 1200 parts are the same.  Bore and head castings are the big diff.  You can call Hank Scott and buy a built NEW 1200.

Let be real the motor you put in today, if raced a fair amount, will not be around by the time any "outlaw" rule come out..

[FunFunFun]

I was talking to 600 Racing on the morning of Sept 17  2008 .They told me they have a liquid cooled 1250 in a (legends car) and are testing it now I

don't know how they got it to fit but its working as they put it " Real Good"  I got the impression that they did not have plans on getting rid of

anything .

I don't think it would be in there best interest to put anyone out of racing  they said there was no HP gain just more reliability and fewer rebuilds. I

added that you will most likely notice a power difference by the end of a race from my past experiance with bikes when we were racing liquid cooled

two strokes at the same  time when some of our competion were still running air cooled motors . There were some suspension diferences between the

bikes as well but the air cooled guys seemed to have the same power at   the start of the race but not at the end.

The guys at 600 Racing  are very easy to talk to, at least Chad was so give them a call they will be able to give you more info about

mounting ,clearences,pumps and rads.

Please share with the rest of us if and when you find out more.

Thanks again

Chris

[JGRacing]

I like the idea of a more reliable motor, but a lot of racers have spent themselves out of racing just trying to make this happen.  By the time you add the increased engine cost and new parts (water pump, radiator, etc.) it might make more sense just to take the chance on an air cooled motor.  When I was getting parts together for a small block chevy for the modified, it was really easy to double the price for the project on more reliable (no performance gain) parts that might only give you a 10 to 20% gain in reliability.  I would expect that they would offer them as an option with sealed air cooled motors and open motors in the mix. 

 

[thunder938]

I talked to INEX today and the word is that you can send your 1200 open to them for a rebuild and it will be turned into a 1250 sealed.  You still we be able to run an "open" motor next year if you wish.  This looks like a bridge to going all sealed in a few years.

[justfreaky]

This was posted on the Northern Ohio Legends site:

Dennis Knox writes:

"600 Racing is entering the next phase of the sealed program. You will now be able to send your 1200 engine to 600 Racing to be rebuilt AS A
1250 SEALED MOTOR! The details should emerge shortly.

If you have a 1200 you will be able to have it rebuilt at 10:1 and it will follow all the compression rules of a 1250 sealed engine. I would look for the cost to be between $2500.00 and $3500.00.

How much will you spend on your next 1200 rebuild, why not make your 1200 and your Legend Car worth more? I guarantee the resale value of your car is ALOT better with a 1250 vs a 1200, if you dont believe it check e-bay and racing Junk!"

[IraceLegends77]

That is great that they are going to let the 1200 get converted to 1250. I think that is a great move on 600 part. I know that a lot of guys out there are not running open motors with the 165lbs rule.

Scott

[legendcar49]

Don't be surprised if it costs more money to convert your 1200 than buying new sealed motor . 

Bob Johnson

[Racinjj]

Thats just wonderful news.