Legality

[Gimpster]

 If you know of  illegal activity within the series, would you turn it in ?

[justfreaky]

Yes.
Makes things bad for the series if someone knows about cheating an just lets it go.

Steve

[Gimpster]

 The topic rolling around in the back of my mind  falls within chassis repair.

[justfreaky]

I understand getting, or keeping, the chassis within spec. Intentionally altering the chassis.... Not so keen on that. I know that there are folks that do it.

Steve

[Gimpster]

Cars around here aren't teched well at all. Seen stuff like upper control arms measured in the pits after a race but chassis that were involved in accidents not checked after chassis repair. Example is one that is just short of needing a pay loader to push the cage down so the 'A' pillar can be welded to the frame.. and it busts again by time feature is over (back yard racers we have around here allowed to repair chassis and race again). If a car spins and can't start under it's own battery power, they aren't checked for alternator disconnects (which they are doing). The list goes on and on but I am told not to say anything because it will hurt car counts ?? hmmm.. ever wonder why a lot of our No. Dak. racers never travel out of state to race ? What happens around here just isn't right (or safe most of the time) the way Legends division is ran or policed

~G~

[canabl]

How much power gain is there with no alternator load?  Racing dirt we have guys siping the American racers even using rubber conditioner, not sure how much gain for us to modify mounting points.

[Gimpster]

Well, 746 watts is one hp. 30 amps @ 14 volts is 420 watts. Mathematically , 746 watts in 1 hp output is 390 watts at 60% .87hp
Numbers of total gain will pend on the actual hp of your motor, of coarse if it is a 125 hp motor or if it is a 140 hp motor. Doubtful you will see 10 percent gain unless the engine is really shot. Other variables depend on the state of your battery, output of the voltage regulator and of coarse the fact that as you race on the battery drains. Not figuring all the variables it has been estimated that 2 to 5 hp gains on a new fresh motor. I will raise the bar some here and estimate numbers around the 7 or 8 hp gain on a worn out motor without the alternator running.
 In general, yes it is sort of a big gain per dollar (cost of a switch).
Siping the tires does help bite and makes the tires run cooler. Soaking the tires for bite builds heat. So if you sipe the tires, they will not grow in diameter during a run. Some racers will use this growth as a ratio advantage per engine rpm towards the end of a feature but they will need to find the right balance between soaking and siping. With only one tire compound in this division and I hear someone is doing both, I don't get too worried right away because they are simply in the early stages of building their knowledge trying to find the right balance between the 2, that works for them. They can listen to advise from others in different divisions to get started but they still need to realize the weight of their cars apposed to the tire width and chassis weight on other division cars advise and what they are applying through their tires on a Legend. After a season of experimenting with them is around the time to listen up on what they are finding that works. If they will be honest with you.  A lot of racers will still be trying to figure out their chassis setup per driving style and drop the ball on tire games along the way when going overboard one way or the other trying to figure it out.  I would rather waste my time trying to get more rubber compounds authorized than waste time and money on juicing and siping tires. I prefer the characteristics of the American racer tire's reaction to heat when the thread is drilled, over siping and soaking them...

~Gimpster~

[Gimpster]

I forget to mention chassis modification advantages... welding a front clip on in various positions can improve weight transfer while entering the corner, exiting the corner and alter the point where the chassis unloads in the corner at different cross weight settings to improve performance. I don't mind people playing with that situation, I have my preferences but when an "A" pillarwill not stay welded, I deem the chassis unsafe as it is sprung.

~Gimp~

[canabl]

I find that the ones going fastest do have years behind the wheel and also a few cheater bits in there to help but to grow our class they need to help the guys spinning each race out with a starter setup so they can not chase their tales all season long.

[Gimpster]

 It's getting tuff to help newbies. I have helped mega racers with base set-ups and advanced advise thereafter, over the past 10 years in this division. Most have been or still are successful on dirt with the advise. Basically opened a lot of doors of thought and victory. You are right in that aspect that they need a base, my friend. I don't want to say it but I have been drawing that line of advise thin on the set-up help lately. Haven't even given out a base for a set-up but to maybe a few people. Maybe it is a generation gap or what but younger newbs to the class use the elders who have knowledge that will help them, like they are a web page for a game cheat. Get what they can out of ya then throw the joystick at ya when they can't advance or improve in the game because of their own personal ability. They just can't figure anything out for themselves and put the blame on you after you help them. These days I am pretty picky about who I help and how much I help them. Burnt too many times in the past couple years. If I do take someone's chassis in and do stuff to it, I will not do it all. I will try to make them think along the lines of the right direction to figure it out though. That is who is using you for a total hand-out or who is serious about racing. Most fail and will not even get back to you about what they tried or to seek more advise. They don't last in the series very long. The ones who do figure it out in the end will claim they did it all themselves and discredit you when they go to advise other racers. Ran across that ALOT lately with winning drivers, in the end, and what comes back to me. Every now and then I find a good racer to help out and tell them more of what works and what don't. Other times, until the trust is built up, I leave the set-up advise that I do give them with a little something they need to figure out on their own (Like how the chassis reacts going in, coming off or in the center for optimum performance). When you do help someone and they want you to come over the day before the next race to work on their car, they aren't serious about racing, just want all the glory that goes with it.  When they want you to come over the day after the races and bring your scales along... they are serious about racing and strive to learn.
End of my rant... if you find any good ones that are willing to accept help, turn them over to me canabl
~Gimp~

[amp racing]

I am no set up guro, did the best I could for the last five or so years.. read many books and bought set up help, all the while refusing to send the car to a high dollar set up shop.[we do not have the money for that]. did have the chassis worked on  to be sure it was legal and proper. my son 23 years old never did the whole set up, we did it together. one week he took control and changed everything, as a driver now he can understand what the car needs with him behind the wheel. sort of a last ditch effort  to go fast. I am very proud of what he has done.. he has not won but there are signs of promise.. he will be able to say he did it all his way...[he has advise from two top teams, but this is his set up...]

joe

[Gimpster]

 Yeah, trial and error. Hitting the books is the old school way and how a lot of us learned. Not only books of the chassis variety but also geometry and physics as they apply to moving parts of the chassis.  We never had internet searches and advice, it was called trusting friends knowledge and research back 20 or 30 years ago. Trial and error, taking set-up theory from heavier chassis and applying to these cars and feeling their response and also applying theory from lighter chassis and applying. I do laugh when someone tells me they can scale a car in 7 or 8 minutes.. that has lose written all over it. Scales are the same as a hammer just laying on a bench. No good just setting there or just picking it up. You have to know how to use it. How many racers do you know that simulate chassis roll or rear steer when jacked up and weighted down on various sides or corners of the car and make changes to the car while USING the scales as a tool to see how the numbers change ? Not many, their scales are about as good as the hammer just laying on the bench... I like the way your son grabbed the bull by the horns and took control, wanting to learn and improve !
A die hard racer in the works...

~Gimpster~

[AKRACER]

i would love to. i race at a track thats on the national list for inex but we dont tech and have no inspector and it makes me upset that other racers are aloud to race without being inspected.  i try to play by the rules and wished the others i raced with did the same.

[dan46]

   My first year I paid the dealer to mess up ,I mean setup my car. I had a extreamly loose car all season and the dealer kept saying it was me. some off it I am sure was. But that winter I did alot of reading ,bought scales,caster/camber gauge, toe plates ,stager gauge. found out I was running 46% cross. Im in my fourth year now . still learning ,but my car is getting closer, If I only had $6200 to buy one of those special legal sealed motors the dealer sells!!!!!  We have a lot of problems up here in Minnesota ,North Dakota And I feel that it is hurting the class. Pretty soon there going to run out of class fillers like me and have 6  or 7 cars showing up instead of 16!  I am not the only one that feels this way.

[justfreaky]

Dan,

Sorry to hear that. There are a lot of people, all over the country, that feel the same way. Track closures do not help either.
As long as there are lack of qualified tech people that are willing to enforce the rules "across the board", this is going to continue to hurt the sport.
This problem is not limited to legends cars.

Steve