Inex rule changes 2013

[Briz81]

I get what your saying Dennis, I just have to shake my head at the folks doing the racing equivalent of  hiring the New York Yankees to win their softball beer league.

BTW, do you know why the Legends Engines cost as much as a 604 crate? 

[knoxracing]

I can not give you the answer you are looking for in regards to the v8 crate.  I would say for one the v8  components are mass produced in the states. From what I understand the v8 crate RACE READY is closer to 8K to 10K when all said and done. Then you have a Legend car motor, sold by YAmaha, imported to the US and retailed by USLC. I do nOT know the price USLC pays for the engine. When we all ran 1200's and there were many builders the rebuild cost by the WELL KNOWN shops were as much and many times it was higher than USLC is today. That is a fact. Based on a complete rebuild being $2600 to $3200 I can see a new motor being 5K, even though I AGREE it seems a better bargain to buy the V8 crate when you compare apples to apples. Like i said I can not justify the cost of the engine, I am  a dealer and I try to help with the little margains I have to work with.

[Briz81]

Thanks, was just curious and had a few racers in other divisions ask me why they were so expensive. Last question, I will need to get my engine rebuilt at the end of the season. I have some new wiseco pistons and a few other new engine pieces for the motor that came with the car. Will I be able to give those parts to USLC to use in the rebuild?

[thunder938]

We can discuss the cost of a new Legends motor, but with the V8 add a few grand for the trans too

[Legends57x]

Price of a new GM 602 crate engine is $3319, add cost of carb at $650 and add another $250-500 for transmission and you're right at about $4500.  GM 604 crate is going for about $5500 minus carb.   Sure would be nice if someone could mass produce at Yamaha crate engine in the US....

[VMS Motorsports]

Mark, you should get Kohler to build a 4 cylinder for us

[amp racing]

over power these cars would be awesome.. gets rid of buying 10 horses for an extra 2k or more.. water cool them and add race tires..

i'm in joe

[Legends57x]

I'd love to see us asphalt cars on a 13" Hoosier slick tire for approx. $100 as this would eliminate the cost of approx. $120 to cut four tires.  I firmly believe tire longevity would be as good if not better than the federals and boy, would they stick to the race track....

[Chunk]

I know this is a hypothetical topic and as much as I would love to have a tire that we didn't have to shave, I think Hoosiers would make the cars too fast. That much side bite with no sway bar could be a bad thing. One of the things that appeals to me about these cars is how much power they have versus the lack of tire. That makes them difficult to drive and is a bit of an equalizer. I get the cost issue. However, you must remember that you can get the same federal tire at Schwabs for about $60, it just doesn't have the inex stamp on it. I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and buy them to race on, just pointing out the profit margin that 600 has on them. I'm sure they wouldn't go to another tire without that same profit margin.

[Grape Competition Develop]

Us legends pays $24-2800 per unit.  My labor to split cases is $1k, plus a valve job $299, snd milling the block snd head for $65 each, the rest is parts...

[knoxracing]

Putting these cars on Hoosiers would be a mistake. I agree cutting these tires is............. well ok, its bad in several aspects including the fact its a total advantage to certain people. My understanding with a tire like a hoosier is you would have to deal with multiple tires for stagger and that is a pain in the ars. Water cooling this motor is a bandage that does not add up, cooling the jug is crap. If we are going watercooled and it is long term, then lets change motors and figure out the details to phase them in.

[legends13]

Grape, you charge $1K to split cases? I am in the wrong business.... I can split a case in under 2hrs, and I have only done 3-4 of these ever.

Not bashing you, after all, if you can get that kind of money, good on you, but how does that even make sense? Or am i reading what you wrote wrong?

[Grape Competition Develop]

Split cases = complete rebuild

[knoxracing]

Grape
I would really like some more info on a typical rebuild and cost. Also, you never did give me that engine number of the pics you posted of that sealed engine you said was sleeved wrong.  You posted the pics and said this was a sealed motor that was done wrong with a couple races, should not be an issue giving the engine number or seal number.

[Grape Competition Develop]

Seals ended up in the trash lol.  Saw another customer with a new one this weekend smoking profusely out of the tailpipe, literally was shipped to him from charlotte in the last month.  This is going to get good lol

The engine number on the one i did was in the 3300 range and i dont remember it off the top of my head. Its been in a dwarf car for the last 2 months.  The number is on the paperwork st my shop, i will check tomorrow.  It was also billed to have a pinned cam, and it did not.

My prices on engine rebuilds are pretty standard.  Figure 17 hours of disassembly, cleaning, machine work, reassembly on an fj/xj at $65/hour.  I cut it short and make it $1000, plus machine work and parts.  I usually let my customers buy parts, as its not worth the hastle for very little margin.
Valve job $299 unless its been screwed up by a serdi machine....then its extra.
Hone a block to size iron or nikasil, (as we own $5k worh of diamond hone equipment, us legends does not, for proper material removal in plated cylinders) $125
Bore and hone $200
Surface head $65
Surface block $65

My engine dyno time is $500 per day plus consumables, fuel oil etc.
At track data aquisition and tuning with my telemtry on your car is $1000 per day.  This is throttle position vs oxygen sensor readings which usually sells carb kits, plus the oil pressure trace after the day usually sells me a few oiling systems .