Author Topic: Inex rule changes 2013  (Read 95373 times)

Offline Vern Houseman

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #120 on: March 08, 2013, 03:09:12 pm »
Well I own three sealed motors with blue seals and a open motor all my motors are legal, I agree with what Scott said well if this goes through looks like this will be my last year and everything will up for sale it's not for  me any longer where did all the fun go,just because of all the jackasses that want to chest screw this
Vernon Houseman #20


knoxracing

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #121 on: March 08, 2013, 03:21:30 pm »
Brad,
USLC said today that me, you, we or whoever cannot send motors from the uS to Canada without special permission. 
The LAST old style seals were installed sometime in JULY OF 2010 according to USLC. As of January 2014 those seals would 3.5 years old, those were the LAST of the old style seals.


Offline slack11

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #122 on: March 08, 2013, 03:32:47 pm »
Man that would not be good..... I live about 10 miles from the canadian border (seriously) and an hour from Lentech in Canada.... I would really hope they would let me drive my motor 1 hour to Lentech rather  than ship it all the way to Charlotte..... 

knoxracing

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #123 on: March 08, 2013, 03:37:02 pm »
Slack, I am sure its worth a call to GE.

Offline racerrad8

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #124 on: March 08, 2013, 04:10:36 pm »
Dennis,

Well, out here in California since the oval season is 10-12 races, there are many engines out here that are that old and older. Are they competitive, well I guess that is all in perspective. Sure, they are 45+ years old, they have a job and responsibilities they are required to attended to on every Monday after a race. They are happy they get to roll the car on the trailer at the end of the night, and if for chance they win, that is just frosting on the cake.

Did they win? Maybe.

Or did they race in a pack of cars and get the enjoyment of racing while getting to load the car back on the trailer at the end of the night, maybe that is the win for them.

This really is not about winning or losing to the majority of the Legend racers. Sure they want to win, but sometimes it is more about the sport than the win. These guys done not spend big money on cheater sealed engines or brake calipers, they just race.

I understand you are a dealer and I truly respect you for speaking up for the racers on this and several other forums. Early on in this post, you said this was a bad deal. Was it a bad deal because of the time frame or because they want to upgrade the seals because of the 1% of the cheaters?

Okay, now the date has been pushed back, but it still is a bad deal. Every racer is on the hook for the $200 in shipping charges, they could then be responsible for the $150.00 "tech fee" and then if anything is illegal they are responsible for more cost than that. Sure some engines are going to need rebuilding and that is the time to reseal.

All other engines that have the old style seals can be checked locally by using the tools provided to the INEX tech inspectors.

Take it from an engine guy, me;

        The only things that cannot be inspected regarding illegal sealed engines by a local tech inspector are two things. The cylinder/deck height and radial gas ported pistons. Now, if either of these two illegal modification were done to a sealed engine the gain(s) are minimal. The gas porting causing excessive ring wear so they are going to be blowing oil by the end of the season and the deck height is not going to make that much difference. But, it can be determined via the Whistler of excessive compression ratio due to the reduced deck height.

 So, those two things are not found by the local inspector, but the engine is sealed with the new seal.  The engine is allowed to compete and wears out. The engine is then sent in for rebuilding and those items are corrected and the engine is now back into 100% compliance.

If for some reason a sealed engine stomps everybody into the dirt, it is time for the INEX tech inspector to look closer or a racer needs to protest that engine. that is why there is a INEX technical inspection process as well as a protesting process, but you have to put your money where your mouth is.

I have said this before when talking about brakes, wheels, shocks, and now the new hot topic re-sealed engines, this is all about money plain and simple. Lets say for example USLCI just certifies 3000 engines in the next year, not counting additional work that might be needed or illegal parts found and replaced, just re-certification only at the amount of $350.00 based on the shipping and tech fee. Why that comes up to a cool $1,050,000.00, that rights over a million dollars.


Hmmm, over one million dollars just to look at engines, put a new seal on it and everyone is now "legal", until the new seal is found a way past and they are in the same boat with people complaining about cheated sealed engines.

Now, lets talk about brakes...

It has been common knowledge now the new INEX/Wilwood brake package is going to cost the racer $400.00. So, lets say USLCI sells 3000 sets of those this year because they make the old stuff obsolete since they work just as good as the current big $$ BM parts. Now, I can tell you out here is California the road race program has zero of the 25-30 cars with BM parts and the oval group has about 10%. So, now the new INEX brakes show up at the track and someone drives in 20" deeper, guess what everyone has to have them or you cant even keep up, let alone be competitive.

So, let look at those numbers for a minute...Let say they sell 3000 of those brake kits at a cost of $400.00, that is a mere $1,200,000.00

Yep, 1.2 million dollars..

When ultimately all that has to be done, is the tech inspector needs to inspected the calipers. If they have round o-rings instead of the Toyota/INEX "as delivered" square cut seal, the driver is disqualified and the parts are confiscated. Seem like the BM product would go away pretty quickly.

Oh, I know the poor old Toyota celica calipers are getting hard to find, which is also one of the justifications of the "new brakes". BS, I can call my supplier and get a set of calipers any day of the week. If that really was an issue, why is USCLI not casting those caliper in the 2" & 2 1/8" varieties, they made them in 2 1/4" overseas without any concern.

Why because they cannot charge you, the racer $400.00 for a "better brake system to combat the high prices of the BM products" if the cast the stock calipers in 2 & 2 1/8".

Yep, 1.2 million + another million plus for engine resealing. It is going to be a good year at USCLI. I wish my SMI (TRK) stock showed such a big profit. I bought 100 shares back in 95 for $10.00, it is running at $17.23 today.

Dennis, don't get me wrong and this is not an attack on you. I have been around a long time and I am probably just as invested than you, if not more so. I currently own 4 Legends cars and 2 roadsters. I have seven sealed engines with one "nationals only" green sealed engine that has been raced a total of 7 times. This engine is not even a blitz 4, it was a factory Yamaha INEX sealed engine that has had the valves adjusted and a double spring put in the clutch. I have over 20 open 1200's everything from core engines needing to be built to a full endurance engine I use for our racing endure series that has billet cams and flat slide carbs.

One difference between you and I regarding dealing &  racing with INEX, is that it is people like me, that buy from dealers like you that keep you in business. Sure you have invested money to operate your business and so have I. But everything I have to race with INEX is not for sale, I own it and have no plans to sell it.

We can all agree, this series is affordable in the overall cost of racing. But, the current management is taking that affordability away with every step they make lately. It was great to be able to be out on the track racing with my two sons from my income from my job, I surely could not do this with a sprint car, late model and even a go kart.

But, you are going to have a hard time convincing me how this is good for the racer; $2,250,000.00

Randy - RPM


Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.


Offline legends13

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #125 on: March 08, 2013, 04:32:39 pm »
Dennis,

Thanks for the update. I for one will say, I will be lucky if my old motor makes it all season, so I am in for a new engine soon anyway, and when it's time, I plan to go new. I was actually thinking of slack as well when Canada came up, as there are about 10 guys (maybe more) that race at Evans Mills and are all within an hour of Ottawa. I hope GE/USLC will allow them to go there for rebuilds/reseal instead of Charlotte as it will make it much cheaper and easier, not to mention likely much quicker turnaround.

Thanks again Dennis.
Brad Salatino
Northeast Legends - Authorized USLC Dealer


Offline legends13

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #126 on: March 08, 2013, 04:51:19 pm »
Randy,

I am not trying to argue you, but come on. 3000 brake kits? what are there, MAYBE 500-1000 legends actually being raced? I don't know the number off hand, but I can't imagine it is anywhere near 3000. And not everyone is going to buy the new kit. I would bet they are lucky to sell 400 this year.


Even stock toyota parts you will spend a good 250-300 for a full front brake system.

$55/caliper (2 needed)
$15/ backing plate (2 needed)
$15/caliper bracket (2 needed)
$4/shim (4 needed)
$75 for brake pads (mid grade)

That is $261, and that is for all stock, stuff except for pads. 

Seems to me $400 is well worth it to have a GOOD brake system that is made for racing.
Brad Salatino
Northeast Legends - Authorized USLC Dealer

Offline racerrad8

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2013, 05:09:59 pm »
No argument here, It is good to debate these types of issue that have a direct connection the money the "average" racer is going to have to spend.

I believe there are many more cars being raced that you believe. We already have had 23 cars at our first road race in the rain last month. So, combined with the oval guys in just central California this year we are going to have 75-100 cars participate. You then have to calculate the 40-50 cars running Northern California and then there is the SoCal group which trumps the tow upper regionss combined.

If you already have a car and are racing it, why do you need anything other than a caliper rebuild? You already have the brackets, backing plates & shims?

So, you have the cost of two kits $8-12 x 2 = $16-24

Then your mid grade brake pad $75.00

So, you are under $100.00 and some time invested?

Why do you need a $400.00 for a "good" brake kit.

Randy - RPM

Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.


Offline IraceLegends77

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2013, 05:17:04 pm »
Dennis,

I have only ran about 4-5 races a year. Some because of work and some because of money. Last year I ran 14 and so my motor might have 25 races on it. I do have a 1200 that I run most of my races on and put the 1250 in for National events. So what I saying is that really don't know how many races I have on it. I know that if USLC could build a motor that would last for a decent price none of this would even be a problem. They had about 15 motors in the truck after the Winter Nationals. It looked like they were hauling wood. I have never cheated but what ever seals they put on these motors it will not take those who go behind them long to do it again. It is putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. I have said and say it again that I do not have the answer but I do know that what they are doing is not the answer either. It appears to me that it is all about money.
Scott Wilkerson #77   Vision Graphix Racing

Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2013, 05:30:27 pm »
Dennis,
Did you ever get clarification on the weight rule?
Are they just doing 1300 total with driver, 640Right side, or will there be a rear #/%?
Maybe I missed it with all the engine talk.

Thanks,
JIM BUCHER
VMS Motorsports
Worldwide Legends Parts Supplier
(262)255-7100
http://www.vmsmotorsports.com/


Offline Briz81

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2013, 08:01:59 pm »
I am what you would call a field filler. A guy in his 40's who decided to give Legends racing a shot for fun and as a way to have something fun to share with his father.  I am no threat to win, and my budget is tight, so this hurts me and will probably prevent me from running a few races I would have otherwise ran. The only way to prevent this stuff is to tech at the track, otherwise the guys who know how to game the system will continue to do so. 

I know US Legends says I am the kind of driver they cater to, but when I see 14 year old kids with 4 cars and a Nascar Hauler winning races with a 3/4 of a lap lead, I realize I may have been duped. It seems Legends wants to be a feeder series to bigger things for the children of deep pockets, then just a fun low cost outlet for guys like me.



Offline Legends57x

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #131 on: March 08, 2013, 09:44:31 pm »
Right on Briz 81! Couldn't agree with you more.  I must be a field killer then too as I joined the Legends series over 3 years ago and currently am in my early 50's.   I am one as Randy earlier classified as a racer who just enjoys racing in itself, and if I win, heck it's an added bonus.  I've raced against both young and old, but I'll have to admit that I cater to the older generation being an old fogey myself.  Guess I grew up in the generation where we all didn't just go to the race shop and buy, buy, buy.  I've made many parts and fixtures over the years like I'm sure many others have.  Guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy..... Maybe guys like us should  just make up decals for our window visors that says 'Field Filler'...LOL  
Mark Ritger
INEX Legends #1x

Offline IraceLegends77

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #132 on: March 09, 2013, 06:09:05 am »
Both of you are spot on. I'm entering my 10th season but they do seem to be more concerned in end with a kid that will be here for a year or two. I know this is a business that is here to make money and will if ran correctly. This was a great series  but it is getting out of control and will eat itself if someone doesn't show some leadership at the home office.

Field Filler
Scott Wilkerson #77   Vision Graphix Racing

Offline thunder938

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #133 on: March 09, 2013, 08:51:09 am »
"..will eat itself.." Ha, HAS.  When I started we would have 18 to 24 cars.  I ran for 4 years and the car counts started to fall to the point of 10 to 15.  Due to "club" problems I said the heck with it, but I still love these cars.  Now in my area they get 5 to 8 cars and there are alot of cars in the area parked or sold in the last few years.
Dave

Offline justfreaky

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Re: Inex rule changes 2013
« Reply #134 on: March 09, 2013, 08:17:10 pm »
With the exception of us "hobby" racers; The young ones are moving on to other classes. Open wheel seems to be popular, as well as late models.
That is not to say that "hobby" racers are any less serious about their racing. I'm just saying that "Joe Racer" helps a lot to keep up the car counts up and are more consistant. Track owners count on us to show up week after week and year after year. Fans show up in the stands to root for "Joe Racer". That makes track owners happy. When INEX starts getting away from their mission statement about "inexpensive" racing, they start to alienate "Joe Racer". Joe wants to race... And will go wherever he/ she can afford to race.

I see Legends cars for sale every day. Some selling to move on: Some selling to get out. Some blame increasing costs, some cite lack of enforcement of rules, others get frustrated with lack of enough notice of rule changes. I know that I was happy to see INEX change their time frame on the engine seals. I, personally, would like to see them have the following years rules laid out by the end of the previous season. That way everyone has plenty of time to save up money to buy their parts, set up the car, and make any changes necessary.

I still think the best way to get your thoughts to INEX is to contact them directly and let them know your concerns. If everyone contacted them to let them know what you think about a proposed rule, or part; Perhaps rules will reflect the majority of racers.

Just some of my thoughts, for whatever anyone thinks they are worth.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

 

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