Author Topic: Track side tuning  (Read 31003 times)

Offline dbradley

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Track side tuning
« on: October 09, 2012, 10:30:23 am »
Hey guys,
I am coming from karting into bandolers. I am wondering what you all typically do at the track for adjustments. Say the track gets tighter as the night goes on..(typical here in the northeast).. Do you do air pressure, a turn on the rear spring?  How about if you are loose?
Thanks for the learning experience in advance!!
Darin




Offline dbradley

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 08:52:44 am »
43 views and nobody has any advice??? I know how to make these changes in karts, just need a little guidance on your thought process with the Bandolero.


Offline Billy13

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 09:19:11 pm »
I viewed but didn't answer casue like you we just finished our first year out of karts so I m not sure either.  We loosened and tightend with cross adjustments in the left rear.  Heard that you set everything and then adjust that spring.  Then I also heard that you should only do it in the RR so not really sure.  Is you look under carrying the LF thread you can see we have other issues also I am trying to work out LOL.
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Offline Billy13

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 09:21:10 pm »
Oh and if you have not figured it out, Bandos seem to be very top secret.  I even reached out to a couple of the bigger teams for help and non of them relied back to me.  We are a small team that pretty muched stayed at our home track so we where no competition to them.
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Offline dbradley

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 10:04:41 pm »
Thanks Billy13,
It's very unfortunate that information isn't shared more..I am used to an abundance of info exchange  in karts...in fact would struggle weeding through it all...lol...
racing at this level should be about giving your child a very stable competitive car. One that isn't getting torn up. We should be instilling confidence, pleasure  and sportsmanship in our kids, right?
How responsive is the car to LR spring changes? Did you do very small adjustments?


Offline justfreaky

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 10:13:55 pm »
Sorry that I don't have a lot of info for you guys. I try to collect what info people will share with me.... Pretty slim. Guess they think that this is rocket science or a government top secret project. From what I can figure, what throws these cars off from karts is the rear springs. Not sure why they chose to go with the go kart type front and springs on the back. Spring rate changes and air pressure adjustments will likely make the biggest difference in your handling. Cross weight seems to be the key.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 11:16:43 pm »
Keep in mind that, according to the national points, only 270 Bandolero's touched a race track this year.
That's not alot of people with information to share, versus the tens of thousands of karts raced
JIM BUCHER
VMS Motorsports
Worldwide Legends Parts Supplier
(262)255-7100
http://www.vmsmotorsports.com/

Offline Billy13

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 08:35:59 am »
I would do adjustments from 1/2 - 1 turn depending on how loose he was.  But again our rear springs seem to be wrong so we need to work on that first.
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Offline justfreaky

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 08:26:16 pm »
There are a lot of people who have moved up to Legends Cars that started in Bando and are still not willing to share.  WHY?
Had one a few weeks ago that said he would share info with me and then gave me excuses about waiting until the end of the year to share his info.
There are some who have shared info and asked  me not to post it. They are willing to let me share that info in PM's or emails. I am willing to share whatever info I have to any of our members.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

Offline dcpainting

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 04:30:58 pm »
Once we got our car where we wanted it we would change car by tire pressure on rear of car been out of for a year but if need help still remember old numbers and stuff


Offline dbradley

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 09:45:52 pm »
Once we got our car where we wanted it we would change car by tire pressure on rear of car been out of for a year but if need help still remember old numbers and stuff

I would love any information that you have...I am a numbers/chassis dynamics sponge!! With you numbers can you describe the track you ran?

Offline mch46

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 10:50:18 pm »
OK, being a karter myself for 30 years before I put my youngest into Bando bandits, (then Legend, now late model)I'll try to help.  Bando's are way different from karts---front end like a kart, rear end closer to late model, so somewhere in the middle, the car gets confused, and you have to treat each end differently.   It would  be helpful if we knew size track, banking, oval or road course, restricted or not, etc.  Also, a Bando gets very sensitive to changes ONCE YOU GET THE CAR PROPERLY BALANCED.  What I mean is that a 1/4 turn on each spanner can change cross 1% on a balanced car, but it make take a full turn on each spanner to get 1% if the car is not balanced.  You have to get the car to that "teter totter" point for adustments to really make a difference at the track.  Having said that, you have to start with proper cross, stagger, psi, ride heights (didn't have to deal with these in karts) rear end squared, rear end offset, lower a arm lead and/or lag, caster, camber, ackerman and front wheel track.  about the most left side wieght you can legally get is 52% and nose weight is critical (I like 44% nose for 1/4 mile ovals and smaller, and r/c's;  48% works well on 3/8 mile when you run restrictor plates.   Post this info and it will be easier to help.  BUT, you'll find that getting a Bando fast is not as easy as it was in karts, and once you do, you prolly will keep that hard earned and expensive info to yourself too.

Now, to anwer your basic question.  IF the car is balanced, you can tighten the car by going down on the LR spanner 1/4 turn and up on the RR a 1/4.  Opposite to loosen car.  Move both, because if you don't, you can get into chain issues and rear axle squareness issues.  Remember, these axles travel up and down, AS WELL AS FORE AND AFT since it is a four link design.  ANgles are everything!!!!   You can also add 2 lbs psi to LR to tighten car up off corner, opposite to free it up off corner.

If problem is entering corner, work at front; if exiting corner, work at rear; center of corner, everything is open for adustment, but normally cross, caster or camber.   Again, RIDE HEIGHTS ARE KEY!!!!  As with karting, blueprinting and flowing carbs and dyno tuning engine is MASSIVE IMPORTANT!!!  And Tire program is still king!!  No soaking, but must religiously clean after each race and keep in controlled environment.  Tires must be cut, but different cuts for different type racing (roadcourse, oval, restrictor plate, etc.)

Most importantly,  NEVER listen to 600 racing when it comes to a Bando set-up.  Sorry, but nobody in that shop has ever seriously raced one of these cars at different tracks, so they don't have any REAL TIME experience.  THey are helpful, just not "on top of the game" so to speak.

Welcome to racing in Area 51

Mike Hudson
Alpha Carbs

Offline dbradley

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 11:20:53 pm »
Mike,
First, thanks so much for your input. Alot to digest in your post. New Hampshire Motor Speedway is starting a new series at the track for legends/Bandoleros. They use a .25 mile flat "oval" that is in turns 1&2. Car will be unrestricted. 
Can you recommend  the engine work / tire guru??

Offline Billy13

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 08:24:57 pm »
we are running 1/4 mile banked track.  Can you recommend ride heights?  Again most of my info has come from 600, they told me as low as I could get front, then gave me a height for RR and set LR t where ever to get cross set.  Mike I can email you my setup sheet to look at if you would like.
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Offline mch46

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Re: Track side tuning
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2012, 12:02:02 pm »
Yes, send me your setup, I'll gladly take a look.  I can tell you now, that you don't set the LR to get cross where you want it.   LF, RF and LR heights must be correct, and the RR is the one that you use to set the cross, unless you're running a roadcourse, then the LR and RR become active in setting the cross.

Mike