Author Topic: New Bando Clutch Info  (Read 11398 times)

Offline Plumcrazy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
New Bando Clutch Info
« on: February 14, 2012, 08:21:53 am »
Hey all.  Heads up on the current status on the new clutch.  I was told the 14 drivers were in, but received a 15.  Also, the new sprockets have a 1/4" flange OUTBOARD (which is really the inboard side) of the  gear.  This makes the assembly 1/4" too long for the crank.  The whole assembly measures approximately 3 1/4" while the crank is about 3".

Anyway, when I called 600, they were aware of the flange issue but were surprised I received that sprocket.  Apparently there will be a new, narrower, spacer for the crank which will allow the assembly to fit.  In the meantime, I spent $400 on a clutch I can't run.

Also, be aware that 600 found an issue with the bearing gouging the crank.  They are replacing the bearing with a pressed in brass insert that, supposedly will solve the problem.

Lastly, I am told the 14 drivers are in testing and should be available soon.  MAKE SURE you get all of the parts.  I messed with my setup for 2 days and ground down a 1/4" keyway to fit before I realized I was missing the stepped keyway.  They sent me the correct one.  It's a LOT easier to install.  =)

Adam




Offline sfreitas20

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Freitas Racing
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 10:48:08 am »
We have a bunch of races on our new clutches in both our cars so here is some input from my perspective.

We didn't have any problem with the bearings at all, but did get one of the 14 tooth gears with the brass insert, but that failed in the first race.  Basically pressing in the brass insert stressed the metal in the gear and caused it to crack and fail.  I am purchasing my gears directly from Bully now so I can get them with the bearings in them instead of the insert.  You just have to leave your chain loose enough not to grind the needle bearings into the crack, but tight enough so that when the car "loads" up in the corner the chain isn't too loose causing gears to fail.

We also experienced a lot of wear with ours.  We did have some conversations with some karting teams that are really familiar with the new style clutches and will be changing our maintenance routines to hopefully get more life out of our new clutches.  If we don't get more life out of them after they both are rebuilt we may be switching back to the old clutches because spending $90 just for parts for rebuilts on each clutch every 5 races isn't going to work for my racing budget.

From my conversation with people it sounds like 600 is not sending all the parts that come with the clutches to us when we order.  It seems when you order a clutch from Bully it includes at least one, but sometimes two, oversized floater discs so you can keep your air gap consistent.

The new clutches work great, but there definitely are some bugs to be worked out with them.
Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports


Offline bando56

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 10:14:05 am »
 Is there anything you can tell me about what is going to wear prematurely ?  I did the break in as per the instructions and I get bad chattering, I'm going to hose it with WD 40 and burn that off ( as in the instructions ). Anything to help would be greatly appreciated .
Thank you

Offline sfreitas20

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Freitas Racing
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 12:42:23 pm »
After doing the break-in as per the instructions we had bad chatter on take offs for a couple race events but once the car was rolling pretty good it went away.  After two races, no more chatter at all.

I have been testing things to figure out the wear issues we have been experiencing and am about to rebuilt my clutches (new friction discs) so I am back to the starting point.  It seems like one possibility is that with too wide of an air gap they are wearing pretty bad.  I recently purchased a bunch of the thicker floater discs so I can keep the air gap at the low end of the range all the time.  I am hoping that will help reduce the amount of wearing we are seeing in the friction discs.  Once I get mine rebuilt for the next event on the 21st and we race a few times with me keeping up with the air gap, I will report back here with what I have found.

After my experience so far with two cars, I really have to question why 600 went with the three disc clutch instead of the standard 4 disc clutch from Bully.  I have tried to speak to them about it but I can't get anyone there to call me back.  I was given a name of the person that supposedly did all the clutch testing and I have left several messages for that person, but have yet to get a call back about it.
Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports

Offline Billy13

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 09:24:43 am »
Had a Bully with the brassbushing.  3 race on it, went out  to practice on the 4th race night and the gear section on the clutch driver broke off.  It broke so bad the pieses where all over the track.  The brass bushing was wore out and cracked up.  Called INEX to order anoter and they said they have not had any probems with them but also didn't have any 14's in stock.
Go Kart racers
BAD K Racing


Offline bando56

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 06:43:01 am »
  New clutch broken after 50 or so laps.  To discussed to remove it last night after taking the green flag and having it sound like it was grinding itself  to death. I'll post the findings later today.


Offline justfreaky

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4512
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 07:37:16 pm »
I have heard nothing but negative stuff on this disc clutch. I, personally, thought it would be a good deal. As I am not a Bando racer, I have no personal experience.
I know kart guys that think disc clutch is the way to go. I wonder if the weight of the Bando cars are what is not working out for the disc clutch. Even the shoe type clutch has it's issues. Thinking something more along the lines of a snowmobile type clutch would be the better deal. They use them in JR. Dragster with pretty good results.

Thoughts?

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

Offline sfreitas20

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Freitas Racing
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 10:46:50 am »
I think you are on to something there with the weight difference between karting and Bandos.  Bandos are about 500lbs heavier or about triple the weight of the karts so I think that is a big part of it. 

I think another aspect of it is the chain tension...in karting the rear axle is solid mounted so they set the chain tension and for the most part it stays consistent the whole race.  In a Bando the chain tension changes as the car loads and unloads going in and out of the corners, so that creates challenges for the clutch and gears as well.  In the case of our cars, we start out with the chain pretty tight because it loosens up a lot in the corners.  If we start too loose then we trash the gears because it gets way too loose in the corners. 

We also run MiniCup cars which run the Redhawk disc clutches and they don't have any issues even though the weights is about the same as a Bando, but the engine moves with the axle in those so we don't deal with the changing tensions ever.

We have been rained out lately so we haven't been able to race yet with our rebuilt clutches, so I don't have any other information on that to share at this point.
Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports


Offline bando56

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 06:14:18 pm »
 I talked with Bully today, Kermit said he did the development for 600. He did not do the clutch for restricter plate motors.  The air gap was good (.040), backed off the springs and found out I can't get to .300 to get the earliest engagement.   They suggested a W-D redo break in.  I need to talk to Mike Hudson for peak torque numbers.

Offline justfreaky

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4512
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 10:27:39 pm »
Scott,

I understand what you are saying about chain tension. I never gave that much thought. Have not heard anyone mention chain tension being any kind of problem with the Bando cars. I can see where that could put a lot of stress on the clutch (regardless of disc or shoe type). I DO think that the weight difference is a serious issue with any type of clutch on these cars. I know the Jr. Dragster kids beat the hell out of the snowmobile clutches and they, for the most part, hold up. But weight-wise for the Bando cars, I think they may be the best option. Would cost about the same amount of money as the disc clutches. I am not talking about buying full snowmobile race clutches. Just using stock equipment clutches.

Bando56,

A restrictor plate engine would surely put a lot less stress on the clutch. These disc clutches are just plain junk for the weight of the Bando cars. I have been hearing about them for about 2 years. At first I thought it might be a better option over the shoe type clutches because of the weight issue. The actual use of them is showing the complete opposite of what I was thinking they could do. While my snowmobile is 580 cc, it is also 27 years old. Will still launch you off the back end if your not holding on! I have done absolutely nothing other than normal engine maintinance with this snowmobile, and it's bone stock.

My 2 cents for what it's worth,

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline mch46

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 12:50:44 am »
Bando56

Do you need peak torque for restricted or open, and are you sure you need actual "peak torque" for the engine, or do you really need torque at the required engagement rpm?  Give me a call and I'll get you the info you need.  Mike .

Offline Billy13

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2012, 09:48:01 pm »
I bought one when I started with the Bando because we used them on karts for 6 years with no issues and I was familiar with them.  Never sounded right from the first time we used it and only lasted about 3 race nights.  The drive gear snapped off right at the basket, the teeth section broke apart and is laying on the track somewhere, the brass bushing was completely wore out.  Went back to the shoe clutch and don't really see a performance difference.
Go Kart racers
BAD K Racing

Offline sfreitas20

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Freitas Racing
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2012, 11:08:54 am »
I am still sticking it out with the Bully hoping there is light at the end of the tunnel, but so far don't really see it.  I have been able to stop the excessive wear issues by staying on top of the air gap.  This requires having several of each sized floater disc so you can constantly change them out as soon as the air gap gets close to the recommendations.
However, now onto the next issue.  We wear through the bronze bushing on the gears in about three races at this point.  We only broke one gear and that one had a hairline crack in it from when they pressed the bushing in at INEX.  Now we have a few gears sitting on the bench without any bushing in them until we can order some bushings and press new ones in ourselves.
Like I said, I am sticking with it hoping there is light at the end of the tunnel, but at the same time it is frustrating too because the Horstman Redhawk clutch on my son's MiniCup car has over a dozen races on it and we haven't had to do anything to it other than clean it off between events.
Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports

Offline rob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • J & R Motorsports
Re: New Bando Clutch Info
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2012, 02:27:43 pm »
WE ran the hortsman for 5 years without a problem, rebuilding once ayear with almost 40 races on it.
I have the bully sitting in the shop but have not raced yet, from what i'm reading and hearing about the bully I think the problem is the stress on the gear and bushing  from the chain getting tight durring the run, with the minicup, and most carts i believe the motor moves with the axle. bandos are always moving, then tightening on the clutch when its loads up comming off corner. we are going to have to find the sweet spot were it is loose enough not to over tightened, and not to loose that you were out the drive gear teeth