Author Topic: Need more rpm's and speed  (Read 24840 times)

Offline jcbowen

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Need more rpm's and speed
« on: May 23, 2011, 09:04:58 pm »
My son and I are new to bando racing. We have a team that has three cars and they are beating us by 3-4 seconds a lap. I know there are tricks to the trade but there cars are way fast. Any suggestions?




Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 09:11:14 pm »
What size track(s) are you running?
What is your current gearing?

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline jcbowen

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 10:33:13 pm »
.395 track. Running a 55 rear sprocket and a factory cluch sprocket. Have a feeling thats where we  are getting beat.


Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 10:34:08 pm »
How many teeth on the sprocket?

Steve
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Offline jcbowen

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 10:36:02 pm »
14/55


Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 10:43:05 pm »
That would give you an overall ratio of 3.93. Too high. Thinking you should try something like 13/63 which is about 4.85. If all you have is the 14 tooth clutch, then perhaps something like 14/68 which gives you an overall ratio of 4.86.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline mch46

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 11:06:37 am »
Are you running a restrictor plate ( if so, red or blue);  what RPM are you turning;  what degree of banking do the corners have?

Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 12:44:39 pm »
Good point Mike, I wasn't thinking about restrictor plates.

James,
Not sure as to the rest of your set up, but it looks like your number 1 problem is the gearing. Kind of like running a highway gear at a drag strip.
I am doubtful that you are getting anywhere near the rev limiter by the end of the straights.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline jcbowen

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 01:44:50 pm »
.395 track with 6 degrees in the corners 4 in the straights.Running blue plate.

Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 01:50:25 pm »
James,

Check this thread and see if it is any help:
http://www.legendsracer.com/index.php?topic=1449.0

or perhaps this one:
http://www.legendsracer.com/index.php?topic=1173.0


Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline jcbowen

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 01:53:17 pm »
Right front caster -3.5 camber +4

left front caster +2  camber +1.5


Offline mch46

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 01:08:31 pm »
It looks like you're on a roughly .4 mile track (pretty big), with very little banking, on a blue restrictor plate.  Your front end numbers look pretty good, but I would change the caster on the left front so it sets in the middle of the adjustment slot.  Your current setting on the LF makes the car physically hard to turn, and also scrubs off corner speed.

Provided you don't have a gear rule, I'd run a 15 tooth clutch with a 57, 56 or 55 gear.  The blue plate is likely putting out only 10.5- 11 HP if you have only thrown a plate in and gone racing.  Blue plate engines (legal ones at least) don't need to turn more than 5,000 RPM.  The HP starts to fall off after 4,000-4500 RPM, and really takes a dive after 5K (down to 8.5 -9 HP).

Based upon the many restrictor plate engines I have dyno'd and carbs I have blueprinted and flowed, a good legal blue plate engine can produce 13 -13.5 HP and should race at 5000 RPM running alone on the track.  This allows for some increase (roughly 5150 RPM) when in a draft).  Red Plates are typically 13-13.5 HP when you just throw the plate in, and good ones with flowed carbs and dyno tuning put out 15.75 - 16.2 HP.  You never want to get even close to the chip with a blue or red plate-- there's just no power up there in that RPM range, and you'll just be making RPM but going nowhere.  So you could be down 2- 2.5 HP compared to the flowed and dyno'd engines, which may not sound like a big deal, buts it's approximately 20% if you've got 11 HP and your competitors have 13.2 HP!!!

Then there are all the other tricks perculiar to plate racing, ie.  toe, stagger, tire pressure, axle lead or lag, aero packages, oils, jetting, air bleeds, etc., etc. etc.  All of these things are different from non-plate racing.  Plate racing is a separate breed, and the ones who have all the little things in place can look like cheated-up rockets, and still be 100% legal.   It is frustrating if you haven't figured out all the "tricks"; but its smooth sailing when you finally get everything right.

Hope I've helped some.
Mike Hudson

Offline bandostuff.com

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 04:17:33 pm »
Are you sure the track in question requires a plate?  Many tracks don't.  If you have a choice of tracks, race as much as possible on a non-plate track.  Driving on a non-plate track will devolop driving skills not used at a many plate tracks.
For all your Langacre & HANS needs-www.bandostuff.com

Offline justfreaky

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 07:45:26 pm »
Ed,

I'm curious too as to whether the plate is required at Langley. I tried to check their rules, but found no mention of Bando cars what-so-ever. Typical!
Been trying to get info from James and hope to find out a little bit more from him.

Mike,

Thanks for the input! When I heard he was running a plate, I started thinking in a slightly different direction. Working on getting some set up info. If you check the Langley site, he has gained a little. Is still way down on speed and lap times. Engine? Driver? Don't know... We are working on that.


Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

Offline mch46

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Re: Need more rpm's and speed
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2011, 12:21:27 pm »
Upon closer review of the caster/camber numbers posted above, I think maybe the caster and camber numbers are reversed.  Therefore, I would strike my previous post insofar as it regards changes to the caster.  I would suggest the following:

Camber    RF   4.5;  LF  2  (I always forget which is + and -, but               both tires should be leaning to the left, toward the infield)

Caster:      RF  -- all the way back;  LF -- set in the middle of the slot.

Mike.

 

anything