Oil coomming from vent

[JGRacing]

I thought the header tubes were stainless? 

[Gimpster]

 Honestly... I normally tear up a header before it has time to rust. I don't like header wrap but I use it because of the sideways mounted engine. If you have the air scoop between the header and block, it deflects heat. I'm biased on them feeling they collect heat. I hate them things and do not use them... hence, the wrap instead. With my temp gun I see cooler head temps after a run without that POS. Wrapping the muffler... I don't but other cars out of my stable do.

----- Gimpster -----

[VMS Motorsports]

I thought the header tubes were stainless?  

Maybe they are...I'm just going by past experience on non-Legends cars

[Gimpster]

I know the S & S is stainless.... I have no issues with them rusting. The Borola on my first Legend was a rusty POS and I laughed while telling my wife it is suppused to be stainless

[justfreaky]

This whole thread has come a long way from the original thread. Glad to see people taking intrest and going beyond the initial topic. So... My thoughts on the oil cooling issue and header wrap.

 Header wrap can get soaked in oil and /or gasoline and will burn as Mr. Knox suggests. The theory of keeping the heat from the headers away from the engine is valid. Perhaps just wrapping the pipes where they are closest to the engine may be of some help. Heat sheilds made of aluminum could also be of some benefit. Similar to the aluminum heat sheild we used to put around the small block Chevy starter motors.

 I would debate the effects of drag on the car vs the speeds that are run. I don't think overall speed of the car itself are reduced by very much if any. The pull type fan (mounted to the rear of the cooler) will likely help with more air flowing through and around the oil cooler. Whereas, the push type fans (because of the shroud) will block some of the cooling air that could be going through the oil cooler. So, I think the pull type fan is the better option.
 As Gimpster pointed out, we do not get near the humidity or hot temps up here in the northwest that some of you get in the summer months. And, most races tend to be run in the late part of the day and evenings. The engine temps will still get high, but likely not as hot as say someone running down south in the middle of a hot afternoon. Letting the engine idle with the fans running will be of better benefit than shutting the engine off and blowing air over the engine and /or through the oil cooler. Some people use an external fan (as Dave did, and suggested) to blow air around the engine (especially to the firewall side of the engine) during the race to help cool the part that doesn't see as much air flow. I think Gimpsters anology to tempering steel is a good one; and not far off base.

As for oil coming from the vent; Have you tried putting a loop in the vent line? Just a simple loop of tubing of the vent line between the engine and the breather. Mount  the breather as high as possible with the loop slightly below it.

My two cents for what anyone thinks it's worth.

Steve

[Gimpster]

 Thanks Steve.... I will transfom the progression of this topic back to it's relevance. Heat = oil foaming. Plain and simple the anti-foaming inhibitors formulated into engine oils will once again break down under extreme heat noted in these sideways mounted engines that were origionally designed by the manufacturer as transverse. On top of it all many new racers to this series are not aware of the added polymeres needed in a motorcycle engine as the oil also is a gear lube. The new owner driver will convienently swing  into their local Wal Mart's automotive department with 20-50 RACING oil on their mind for an oil change. Not aware the oil is not designed for the complete oiling system in a motorcycle engine. With the heat of these engines and breakdown of anti foaming agents and no poly for gear tooth compression the oil will break down to the point of total failure. Might as well have water in the crankcase. The situation will elevate the probability of oil foaming and blowing out through the breather. Vern mentioned running Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil along this topic's journey so I am near resolution that heat is playing a pretty good sized roll in the situation at hand. I still think there ia something else to be looked into on their oiling system and we most likely covered it under the catch can system topic earlier on in this conversation.
 Anyway... thanks fellers.... hope I helped in some way during my babble

----- Gimpster -----

[justfreaky]

There has been some mention of  "motorcycle oil" vs "automotive type oil" in past threads on the great oil debate.  Motorcycle oils are not only engine lube, but also transmission fluid and, as you mentioned, gear lube. Besides the heat factor, I think that vibration enters into the equation on oil foaming . Although I have never had this problem with any of my motorcycles, it could play a part in the apparently excessive oil going to the catch can / breather in the race car.

Gimpster,
I always enjoy your input. You give me lots of food for thought. Sent you a PM about the alternator thing. lol! Sometimes, I think we all get to overthinking things.
While wind tunnels and such would be cool !!! ... You can do the same sort of thing with some yarn, a little tape and a video camera. (and a few practice runs) Seriously; How far is getting too carried away? 

Steve

[Gimpster]

 I sent you a charging reply ... my friend !!

----- Gimpster -----

[Gimpster]

Keep this in mind when wrapping you exhaust. i used the header wrap everyone uses, I believe it is suppose to be fire retardant.  I had a rod come through the block, the oil saturated the wrap and there was a fire. The wrap was like a huge torch soaked in oil, it caused alot of damage and heat in the cockpit.  That was the last of the wrap for me, lol.

 I am going to try only partially wrapping the header tubes as mentioned on this topic. Just something new to experiment with that in theory should work to hold down heat. That header runs pretty hot, especially if it will ignite oil

----- Gimp -----

[JGRacing]

I used header wrap on the modified and it had over the bell housing runners which really heated up the cockpit before the wrap.  I see how they could hold oil if pieces depart from the inside of the block, so I guess it is the lesser of two evils.  I might try wrapping the first few inches of the runners like Gimpster mentioned.  That way I can also unwrap a runner every once in a while to check for rust without having to re-wrap everything.  Pretty sure that mine are stainless, so hopefully rust will not be an issue.   

[JGRacing]

Also a little off topic, but in Smokey Yunick's book be talked about an alternator he worked on that had a small propeller instead of being belt driven.  Just some useless trivia.

[Gimpster]

 Pretty much what Steve and I have been exchanging PM's about. Other charging sources. I told him that I had to call Honda tech line over and over for a Gold Wing I once had that had a serious charging discharge issue under braking, mega years ago. Tech line ended up turning me over to an engineer as they were stumped and would not agree with where I thought the energy was going. After about 3 hours of discussion on this unit, I finally found a guy that believed my thoughts that the brakes applied were the cause of draw and not a stator or wiring issue. That conversation with the engineer went pretty deep. Haha, long story short.... Honda came out with a hybrid that charged batteries during breaking a few years later. Geez... wonder if I started something that day explaining how the spinning rotor and brake pads applied were causing a draw from through a ground ? who knows...... maybe I opened some engineering eyes to another charge source ? haha I kinda like to think so anyway
Apology for steering off topic

----- Gimpster ----- 

[89tgreen]

Off topic. Lol. This whole thread has been off topic. Lots of great stuff tho.

[Vern Houseman]

lol wow

[VMS Motorsports]

See what you started Vern?