Help!! Engine won't start??

[Bigmil]

Ok, so some good and some maybe not so good info.

I flushed the fuel system with new good fuel and the car was still hard to start.  Once warmed up it was fine and would restart no problem.  So I warmed up the motor and and covered it with a blanket overnight to hold as much heat in as possible so I could get it started the day of the race (Sunday) it worked...barely.   We got to the track and got the car running and I noticed a slight black puff coming out of the exhaust when I would rev it up hard.  So I figured I was running a little rich.  I also noticed that when I took off from a dead stop the engine would bog down until I got the rpm's up.  Other then that the car ran great.  Infact it was good enough for me to drive it up to third in my heat and almost 2nd until I got tangled with the 2nd place car when I tried to pass and got sent to the back.  In the feature I drove from 10th place up to 5th in 9 laps (and was gaining on 4th place) when the rains came and the race got postponed. 

So it's clear that what ever the problem is it is not effecting the car much at full speed under load. 

Due to the engine bogging on starts from a dead stop I believe I have a carb issue.  This is strange because I have never touched the carbs accept for when I put them on this engine) and it has ran fine for the whole season up till now.

Anyway I am not racing for two weeks so I am going to see if I can take my car to our local legends mechanic (Alfrey Motorsports) and have him take a look at it.  Hopefully I won't be broke when I get the car back......$$

I will let ya'll know what we find out!!

Gerad

[IraceLegends77]

sure sounds like carbs.......

Scott

[JGRacing]

I wonder if it could be a slight leak in the fuel line.  Cranking it forever to get it started reminded me of the fuel pump having to get the line primed when I went to start my new motor.  On my street stock years ago I had an issue with a leak in the line not allowing it to stay primed, but that was a block mounted mechanical pump instead of electric pump.  Might be worth checking out just in case.   

[VMS Motorsports]

Especially with the steel braided line if you dont cut the braid away where you are clamping...

[justfreaky]

I'm still going with the thought that the carb(s) may be gummed up somewhere (jets, air passages... Not really sure!) or that it is somehow carb related.
Gerad has worked through a lot of thoughts from those who have posted. I know that it is hard to diagnose a problem when you can't see it, hear it, or feel it.
It would be nice if there is a member here on the site that that lives near him, or races at the same track, and could stop by and give him a hand.
That is one of the reasons I am so big on people filling out their profiles! I am clear on the other side of the country. If someone lives near the Dayton, OH area ...
Send him a PM or post.

Sorry to sound grouchy. If I could, I would run over there and help him in heartbeat!

My THANKS to all that have posted!

Steve

[Bigmil]

I hope to meet tonight with a local guy that is kind of the "go to" guy when we are at the track when you have problems.  I'm not sure how much he know about carbs though?  Anyway I figure if he atleast confirms for me that it is a carb issue I mught just send them off to be rebuilt.  Or I have been looking and found a couple of guys selling used carbs for around $200.  Might not be a bad idea for me to have a second set of carbs anyway......

I will let you know what I find out tonight......and decide to do.

Thank you for everyones help!!

Gerad

[Bigmil]

Ok Jim,
Nothing is working so I just shipped the carbs to you.  Hopefully I can get them back in time for my two day race on July 10th and 11th

I PM'd you the tracking number and my cell phone number.

Thanks,
Gerad

[VMS Motorsports]

Gotcha. I'll call you this weekend when we get them apart.
Thanks,
Jim

[Bigmil]

Ok, back to square one........ 

Jim went through my carbs cleaned them up and sent them back.  Last night I put them on and much to my surprise  starting the car was only slightly better (it took ~30 minutes to start as apoosed to the 60 minutes two weeks ago).  Thank you Jim, when it does start it runs better than it ever has.....!

I also completely removed the "INEX Approved" fuel/ignition cut-off box.  That didn't change anything.....

When it is running and warmed up it seems to run just fine.   

It almost seems as if I need to use more choke (than possible) to get it started (yes I checked my choke adjustment).
or
That there is some sort of timing advance thing that only affects it when it's cold.

I am completely stumped and getting more frustrated each day.  I don't think it's my coils because they should run the same cold or hot and the same with the ingnition control box.

I bought a Haynes manual for the 1986 FJ1200 and plan to use it's troubleshooting guide tonight.  But I'm begining to loose hope, and running out of money

I am going to try and check the timing again tonight as that is pretty much the only thing I can think it would be

[JGRacing]

Wonder if the cam timing or valve adjustments could be off far enough to do this?  Also check and make sure that none of the cam loabs look worn down.  Just guessing at this point. 

[racerrad8]

Wonder if the cam timing or valve adjustments could be off far enough to do this?  Also check and make sure that none of the cam loabs look worn down.  Just guessing at this point. 

A compression check is in order and will determine if there is any of the aforementioned problems.

From there Gerad shoot me an email; rpm@swaybar.com

Send me your contact info and I can give you a call to try and work through a few things. I will not be back to my shop until Monday and I can get in touch with you then.

Randy - RPM

[VMS Motorsports]

Still sounds electrical to me, but a compression check and talking to Randy sure isn't a bad idea

[Bigmil]

I am not officially changing the title of this string to "The forum of Failure (and wasting money)"
 
So, I got the engine going last night and even though I was having the engine starting problems I thought I would be atleast good enough to race a make-up feature, another feature and then a third feature Sunday (yes thats 3 races worth of points in one weekend).  Hoever I am back EARLY from the trach writing in this forum of failure.
 
Last night I got a spare set of coils and tried them on the engine.......did not help.
 
Today at the track I got the car started and went out for first prictice.  Everything felt pretty good and I was gettin in the groove.  When I cam back the pits the car kinda bogged down and stalled as I slowed down to enter.  And thats all she wrote,  From then on I could not get it to restart (even though it was fully warmed up).
So, I bought a new fuel pump and fuel filter from the track vendor (because my local guy thought that was it).  Nope, still didn't light up.
I had a very friendly Al Renner came over to help me and we swapped out the carbs for a brand new set he had.....still didn't work.  We swapped out the black ignition box (with a known good one he had)......still nothing.  We then changded spark plugs again....still nothing....we then switched one of the coils back....still nothing.....(meanwhile my make-up feature in which I was restarting 5th is starting  ).....then Al thought the fuel smelled funny so we drained the lines and carb of fuel and ran 110 racing fuel from his jug through the engine........still nothing.
I then sobbed as qualifying started. 
We then could only think it was something with compression or timing.  At this point Al needed to go and race his own car so I scoured the pits and nobody had a compression tester.
so....
We packed up knowing that there was nothing further we could do at the track.
I got home and checked the compression and this is what we found
Cylinder #1 - 30psi
Cylinder #2 - 15 psi
Cylinder #3 - 15 psi
Cylinder #4 - 45 psi
 
Why can't we just run on one cylinder?
 
So, I have no idea why the compression is so bad (we never checked it before so we don't know what we started at).  But I have no idea how I could have been running so good with such low compression for so long.  Or something has happened to kill my compression.  I thought that if I had one or maybe two low cylinders it could be the cam timing off but I don't think all of them being low could be the cam timing.  So I am going to talk to the local engine builder Sunday and see what he thinks.  I will likely pull the engine early in the week and take it up to him.
 
Luckily the series director has offered me to use his "old" engine until I can get mine fixed....or pay for it to get fixed......the only downfall is that the engine I may be borrowing has (as said by him) a lot of races on it and it has never been rebuilt.  I ask how many and he said....well over 100 races.
But it runs so what's a guy gonna do.
 
I'll shoot you an email Randy but with the low compression it sounds like I need a full rebuild $$
 
the miserable one (Gerad).....
 
I am sure Chris Linely (linley racing on this forum) will take advantage of my misfortune and increase his points lead on me for rookie of the year......right at the time that I caught up with him!
 

[thunder938]

that is low, are you sure those numbers are right?  I dont think that motor would ever run with numbers like that..15psi??  This motor is the one that ran fine then just started to have problems over the week while at home??The comp did not drop like that while sitting in the shop.  I would call Hank Scott and ask him before you invest in a motor.  Even if you not a cust. Hank will talk and help you out over the phone

[VMS Motorsports]

How did you do the compression check?