Author Topic: oil additive  (Read 13731 times)

Offline Schmitt20

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oil additive
« on: March 28, 2010, 10:10:30 pm »
What do you guys think about adding extra zinc after each oil cahnge to prevent engine wear?




Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 10:22:26 am »
According to Lake Speed, Jr. of Joe Gibbs Driven Racing Oil, one of the important differences between racing oil and API oil is the limited amount of phosphorous in API blends. The EPA limits the amount of phosphorous and zinc, specifically it’s the phosphorous, not the zinc that is limited. Phosphorous is a component of Zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate (ZDDP, or ZDP) is a family of zinc salts of dithio organophosphates. And they easily dissolve in mineral and synthetic oils that are used as lubricants.

Zinc phosphate is mainly for anti-wear. The zinc and phosphate go hand and hand. So when you limit phosphate you limit zinc as well.

“You can put zinc in the oil but it won’t act as an anti-wear agent until you add the phosphorous,” says Speed. “When you have a limit on the amount of zinc-phosphorous you limit the anti-wear agents. The combination of zinc and phosphorous is limited to a maximum of 800 parts per million in API/SM classification, which is the latest classification that came out in 2004.

“Any oil that you get that says API or ILSAC GF-4 contains a limited amount of zinc and phosphorous, and for most racing applications, that’s not what you want,” says Speed.

It is for this reason some engine builders have switched to diesel oil for break-ins as some of these formulations are known to have higher levels of zinc.
“The current diesel oil spec is CJ-4 is limited to 1,200 parts per million (ppm), so it does have 400 ppm more than API pass car oil but it’s only marginally better. A lot of people get mislead hunting down the oil with the highest ppm, as if it were the Holy Grail, and it really isn’t,” says Speed.
JIM BUCHER
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Offline JGRacing

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 12:47:48 pm »
When they started taking all of the good stuff out of the street oil, I destroyed a few cams in my modified before one of the tech people at Speedway Motors explained what was happening.  That little change in the oil has a huge impact on engines with flat tappet cams. 

Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2010, 01:02:40 pm »
The biggest thing to make sure of with any additives, like prescription drugs,  is, do the side effects outweigh the benefits of usage?
I would guess, (and I don't know, never looked into it) that any zinc additive would also include friction modifiers, which could inhibit positive clutch engagement.

I guess the best advice is to read up on what you're going to put in.
JIM BUCHER
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Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2010, 03:03:41 pm »
Alright thanks. I was talking to a guy who works at O'reilly's about motor oil and he said lucas came out with a nex zinc additive. I figured i prolly should talk to some legend guys first and read into it a little bit before i stick that in the oil. I couldnt find anything about it on the lucas website.


Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2010, 04:09:10 pm »
To the best of my knowledge, the only Lucas product with extra zinc is their break-in oil...I'll try to check into it tonight/tomorrow
JIM BUCHER
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Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2010, 06:34:09 pm »
ok thanks. The guy said they just got it in.

Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2010, 07:02:51 pm »
I was close, they call it a break-in oil additive:

Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus
Key Benefits

•Protects camshaft lifters and valve train during break-in period of motor.
•Excellent for flat tappet camshafts during break-in or as an additive to any motor oil to prevent premature wear.
•Exclusive blend of extreme pressure additives.
•Add one bottle with every oil change to increase the zinc content of your motor oil.
•Designed for race applications requiring additional extreme pressure additives.
•Dyno testing shows a more efficient break-in when used resulting in less engine run time prior to race day.
•Not designed for passenger car use.


In checking the MSDS on this additive, 2 things jumped out at me:
-Flash Point: 292 degrees F
-CONDITIONS TO AVOID: Excessive heat.

The lowest flash point of any oil that I could find was Kendall GT-1 at 390 degrees F, most oils are in the mid to high 400 degree area. Not that a quart of this would lower the overall flash point of your oil, just an interesting point in my mind.
That, and excessive heat is the name of the game for us in the dirt, on a nice spring day when the track is heavy, 300+ degrees has been achieved.
JIM BUCHER
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Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2010, 08:06:44 pm »
I think i will stay away from this. Thanks for finding taht information

Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2010, 09:10:04 pm »
Hey Jim i got my oil and pressure gauages but i didnt get any fittings or lines with the pressure gauage. the temp is complete.


Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2010, 09:17:42 pm »
Hmmm.
The box was sealed, right?
I'll check into it in the morning
JIM BUCHER
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Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 09:28:38 pm »
yea the box was sealed. i have everything but the fittings and the line for the pressure gauge.

Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 11:08:33 am »
Hi Brandon,
Got the scoop on the pressure gauge. Since there are so many different places and ports for oil pressure, they do not include the fittings or line, as you can use any number of fittings or lengths of line depending on the application. That is why the pressure gauges cost less than the temperature gauges. Most people use brake line as a capillary.

Let me know what you end up using for fittings and line, and I'll re-imburse you, as I should have known this before-hand.

Thanks,
Jim
JIM BUCHER
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Offline Schmitt20

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 02:50:27 pm »
Oh alright. What are you using? Where do i run the line to?

Offline VMS Motorsports

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Re: oil additive
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 06:51:43 pm »
I don't  run a pressure gauge or light anymore, just a temp gauge and tach and I waffle back and forth on if Im going to put the tach back in. I might actually go gaugeless this year, but not sure if I want to take the jump. The pressure gauge in itself would be fine, but my car had the red idiot light, and by lap 3 it was on all the time from the oil sloshing over to the right side of the pan anyway.

Some people run it to the top end oiler, but most people run it  to the leftside port in the engine. I dont have my engines here right now or i could tell you exactly where it is.
JIM BUCHER
VMS Motorsports
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